ANA Discussion Forum
General Category => AN Issues => Topic started by: Larry on July 23, 2008, 09:35:45 pm
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Hi all,
With the topic on mobile phones discussed a lot on this forum, I thought I'd post an article in our daily rag today. It's below. The jury is still out for me but it's something to blame i suppose!!! i think it will be another 10 or 20 years before we really know the answer, you see it's similar to smoking - all the studies intiially were funded by the tobacco companies, well, likewise here, the research dollars are coming from the mobile phone companies so getting the real answer is tough.
Make your own mind up
Laz
The head of a prominent cancer research institute has issued an unprecedented warning to his faculty and staff: limit mobile phone use because of the possible risk of cancer.
The warning from Dr. Ronald B. Herberman, director of the University of Pittsburgh Cancer Institute, is contrary to numerous studies that don't find a link between increased tumors and mobile phone use, and a public lack of worry by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration.
Herberman is basing his alarm on early, unpublished data. He says it takes too long to get answers from science and he believes people should take action now - especially when it comes to children.
"Really at the heart of my concern is that we shouldn't wait for a definitive study to come out, but err on the side of being safe rather than sorry later," Herberman said.
Herberman's advice is sure to raise concern among many mobile phone users and especially parents.
In the memo he sent to about 3000 faculty and staff on Wednesday, he says children should use cell phones only for emergencies because their brains are still developing.
Adults should keep the phone away from the head and use the speakerphone or a wireless headset, he says. He even warns against using mobile phones in public places like a bus because it exposes others to the phone's electromagnetic fields.
The issue that concerns some scientists - though nowhere near a consensus - is electromagnetic radiation, especially its possible effects on children. It is not a major topic in conferences of brain specialists.
A 2008 University of Utah analysis looked at nine studies - including some Herberman cites - with thousands of brain tumor patients and concludes "we found no overall increased risk of brain tumors among cellular phone users. The potential elevated risk of brain tumors after long-term cellular phone use awaits confirmation by future studies."
Studies last year in France and Norway concluded the same thing.
"If there is a risk from these products - and at this point we do not know that there is - it is probably very small," the Food and Drug Administration says on an agency Web site.
Still, Herberman cites a "growing body of literature linking long-term mbile phone use to possible adverse health effects including cancer."
"Although the evidence is still controversial, I am convinced that there are sufficient data to warrant issuing an advisory to share some precautionary advice on cell phone use," he wrote in his memo
A driving force behind the memo was Devra Lee Davis, the director of the university's centre for environmental oncology.
"The question is do you want to play Russian roulette with your brain," she said in an interview that she did from her mobile phone. "I don't know that cell phones are dangerous. But I don't know that they are safe."
Of concern are the still unknown effects of more than a decade of cell phone use, with some studies raising alarms, said Davis, a former health adviser in the Clinton Administration.
She said 20 different groups have endorsed the advice the Pittsburgh cancer institute gave, and authorities in England, France and India have cautioned children's use of mobile phones.
Herberman and Davis point to a massive ongoing research project known as Interphone, involving scientists in 13 nations, mostly in Europe. Results already published in peer-reviewed journals from this project aren't so alarming, but Herberman is citing work not yet published.
The published research focuses on more than 5000 cases of brain tumors. The National Academy of Sciences in the U.S., which isn't participating in the Interphone project, reported in January that the brain tumor research had "selection bias." That means it relied on people with cancer to remember how often they used cell phones. It is not considered the most accurate research approach.
The largest published study, which appeared in the Journal of the National Cancer Institute in 2006, tracked 420,000 Danish mobile phone users, including thousands that had used the phones for more than 10 years. It found no increased risk of cancer among those using mobile phones.
A French study based on Interphone research and published in 2007 concluded that regular mobile phone users had "no significant increased risk" for three major types of brain tumors. It did note, however, that there was "the possibility of an increased risk among the heaviest users" for one type of brain tumor, but that needs to be verified in future research.
Earlier research also has found no connection.
Joshua E. Muscat of Penn State University, who has studied cancer and mobile phones in other research projects partly funded by the mobile phone industry, said there are at least a dozen studies that have found no cancer-cell phone link. He said a Swedish study cited by Herberman as support for his warning was biased and flawed.
"We certainly don't know of any mechanism by which radiofrequency exposure would cause a cancerous effect in cells. We just don't know this might possibly occur," Muscat said
Mobile phones emit radiofrequency energy, a type of radiation that is a form of electromagnetic radiation, according to the US National Cancer Institute. Though studies are being done to see if there is a link between it and tumors of the brain and central nervous system, there is no definitive link between the two, the institute says on its website.
"By all means, if a person feels compelled that they should take precautions in reducing the amount of electromagnetic radio waves through their bodies, by all means they should do so," said Dan Catena, a spokesman for the American Cancer Society. "But at the same time, we have to remember there's no conclusive evidence that links cell phones to cancer, whether it's brain tumors or other forms of cancer."
Joe Farren, a spokesman for the CTIA-The Wireless Association, a trade group for the wireless industry, said the group believes there is a risk of misinforming the public if science isn't used as the ultimate guide on the issue.
"When you look at the overwhelming majority of studies that have been peer reviewed and published in scientific journals around the world, you'll find no relationship between wireless usage and adverse health affects," Farren said.
Frank Barnes, who chaired a recent National Research Council report looking into what studies are needed to assess the health effects of wireless communications, said Wednesday that "the jury is out" on how hazardous long-term mobile phone use might be.
Speaking from his mobile phone, the professor of electrical and computer engineering at the University of Colorado at Boulder said he takes no special precautions with his own mobile phone. And he offered no clear advice to people worried about the matter.
It's up to each individual to decide what if anything to do. If people use a mobile phone instead of having a land line, "that may very well be reasonable for them," he said
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Laz -
thanks for the info.
I just finished reading a shorter version of what you posted on MSN.com
From what I gathered from the shorter version, the guys in Pittsburgh are trying to link cell phone use to cancerous tumors - and, as we well know, acoustic neuromas don't fall into that category.
It's an interesting article nonetheless. IMO the debate will rage on for many more years. I wonder in the end what the outcome will finally be ???
Jan
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Here we go again.
Herberman is basing his alarm on early, unpublished data. He says it takes too long to get answers from science and he believes people should take action now - especially when it comes to children.
"Really at the heart of my concern is that we shouldn't wait for a definitive study to come out, but err on the side of being safe rather than sorry later," Herberman said.
The article says quite clearly that there is no correlation between cell phone use and brain tumors but this fellow doesn't like that conclusion so he is going to claim that not being 100% sure is tantamount to being at risk. How absurd. In science, nothing is ever 100%. Acoustic Neuromas were discovered over 100 years ago (in cadavers used by medical schools) long, long before cell phones were invented. This is pure hysteria with little-to-no basis in fact. Dr. Herberman should know better.
It goes without saying that folks can follow this hysterical fellow's advice and throw away their cell phone, use a headset, whatever, if they wish, but I don't see any real evidence for his concerns. You can find risk in almost anything if you look hard enough. This alarmist way of thinking is dismaying to me. We're becoming a nation of too-easily frightened people.
Laz:
I appreciate the post and the chance to see another point of view but I heartily disagree with Dr. Herberman, who seems to base his concerns on scant evidence and a lot of 'what if?' conjecture, attained without benefit of scientific evidence, that, according to this doctor, 'takes too long'. How ridiculous a statement is that? This is just rubbish, in my opinion, which is mine alone and does not represent the ANA in any way. Thanks for the chance to state my case, as it were.
Jim
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I have proof that cell phones cause acoustic neuromas!!!
Just kidding. Sam
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Sam, that was TOO funny. ;D I tend to agree with Jim. I'm waiting for real scientific verification. I had a teacher in high school that tried to make a similar point about jumping to conclusions by saying that "95% of people in mental instituions have eaten lettuce, therefore lettuce must cause mental problems." LOL
Jean
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*runs over to pinch Sam's arm!* :o
Cute, Sam! you almost got me on that one! ;) :)
Oh, the debates, the debates on this one... noted all over this forum (you can do a "search" here for cellphones and find the topics....)
I'm sitting this one out..... heck, I already got the "dreaded" and not from smoking (yeah, I smoke).. and not from cellphone use... and not from my diet..... and no known cause...... and I refuse to be an ostrich and live with my head in the sand and run and hide from all devices, including my microwave oven, that could be hazardous to my health. Life it too short.... I'm gonna live it.. and that includes talking on the 2 cellphones I have (one for work, one for personal).
Oy.....
Phyl
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I saw the video on this and they mentioned both brain tumors and "tumors on the acoustic nerve". I got my cell phone in March, a month after my diagnosis. I HAVE eaten lettuce, however....Hmm....
Tammy
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Ha. I also read an article today about how some types of granite, used in countertops, contain uranium and give off radon. The story was about some woman who found it in her own countertops and had them removed 'immediately.' Then they quote some sciencey guy who says you'd have to pretty much commit yourself to leaning on your countertops 24-7 to suffer any consequences you wouldn't otherwise risk by otherwise living and breathing. I'm guessing the cell phone cancer risk is pretty much the same, just like the saccharine cancer risk, or the risk of getting cancer from eating grilled foods, or (insert cancer-causing activity here). In other words, if you do anything to incredible excess, it's probably not going to be good for you.
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Good one, Sam - and Jean :D
Phyl, you smoke :o Who knew?
I'm certain that my AN must have been caused by lettuce since I haven't been around any granite countertops lately ;)
The things they come up with these days ::)
Jan
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Hi guys,
I know this topic has been done like a pig on a spit but just thought I'd liven the debate up again.
Jim, i agree that we shouldn't be making decisions on anything without a lack of evidence but you know what, gut feel counts for a bit. Not that i have woman's intuition (last time I looked anyway) but there is something in that.
I dare say that someone will have a breakthrough on AN's and discover the cause or causes - i doubt whether in our life time (well mine anyway). Oh well, we got a laugh out of the thread so thats gotta be good.
Laz
p.s my phone's ringing, do i answer it????????????
Think I'll call ghostbusters!!!!!!
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If cell phones cause ANs and I am now using my only good ear to talk on my cell I could be in trouble. Then again, if I develop an AN on my left side, how do I distinguish if it is from NF2 or the cell phone? ;)
For now, I'm off to go eat some lettuce and fall asleep on my granite countertops while talking on my cell phone. I like living life on the edge. ;D
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For now, I'm off to go eat some lettuce and fall asleep on my granite countertops while talking on my cell phone. I like living life on the edge. ;D
Oh, you rebel, you. Living dangerously again, I see ;) :D
Jan
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Laz - thanks for starting this thread - I've gotten more laughs in the last 2 minutes of reading this than I would usually have in the first two hours of my day!
Ohio, you are too funny - I picture you lying recumbent on your granite countertops nibbling a lettuce leaf while talking in a desultory tone on your cell phone... and you are no doubt talking to Tammy (hey, wait, Tammy, is that a small fleck of lettuce stuck in your tooth???) Quick, someone call Jim....
Okay, I'll try to be more circumspect now...
Debbi :-X
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Canadian news headlines
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2008/07/12/cellphones-kids.html
Google search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&rls=GGLD,GGLD:2005-11,GGLD:en&sa=X&oi=spell&resnum=0&ct=result&cd=1&q=Toronto+department+of+public+health+cell+phones&spell=1
DHM
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I think that if it were cell phones, all of our Neurologists would have AN's! I like to theorize, and here some food for thought (BTW - what's wrong with lettuce?!): At the risk of having my butt kicked by a plethora of engineers who I did work for and who subscribe to the Scientific Method and not pure conjecture, I believe it has to do with metal. Not having read up on the genetics and biology of these tumors, I'm guessing there is a predisposition to produce benign tumors elsewhere, and metal is the catalyst: I'm not sure what alloys, and where you are exposed may vary. I remember asking my doc if it could have been the clean room and he said no connection likely. They had, infact, had documented evedenceof ANs 150 years aog, long b4 cell phones (but during the iron age!). In my research prior after diagnosis I came across a case of two sisters from Buffalo, NY who were diagnosed with ANs and they were (not NF2) unusual because a familial trait had not been linked before. I spent time in Fishkill, NY so I began thinking maybe it was the Hudson with it's pollution and heavy metals. Then reading on, I found that they had a metal (if I remember right it was copper or chrome smelting) plant near their home and I had an epiphany about how I worked in planarization of metals and handled many wafers that had just come from deposition. I can tell you that I personally determined that my developing acrophobia coordinated to that period, which ( having gone from the higher the better, to fear) was my inner ear saying 'something is not right with your balance", so I believe it started growing at that time. BTW, these PHDs came to me for not only my trained observation of what was happening under the scope, but also for a little intuition - in R&D that's sometimes good. Classical training mixed with this simple sort produced invention disclosures and publications.
I saw a previous thread about Dental work, and I think it should be further investigated. Like buying cheap products from China for our kids might unknowingly have exposed them to lead, we have to put two and two together somehow for future generations.
I'm POed at my local gov for wanting to "mandate" the new mercury containing bulbs - boon to energy savings, bad for our future ground water sourcing. Consequences always. For what it's worth I think we need to learn from the Romans.
Jules
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I laugh about the lead poisoning from china ... myself and untold millions of fishing folk use guess what metal for weight .. you guess it.. lead :o.. I bet I have half a pound a pure lead weights in my fishing bag .. granted .. I wont let a 1 year old play with them....
(some states are banning the use of lead in freshwater)
cell phone use ? .. yea - I could say driving 80 MPH on the highway increases the chance of road death .. but I still do it ... cell phone use might increase the risk of brain tumors .. but I still do it ... we don't know what causes brain tumors! so how can we jump to this conclusion !!
Personally I want to live a life .. every thing has its risk and rewards its part of living .. I'm gonna have a good time while I'm waiting for the end 8)
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Personally, I think if cell phones cause cancer then we're all gonna die.. wait, we're all gonna die anyway. There goes that theory.
Brian
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Personally, I think if cell phones cause cancer then we're all gonna die.. wait, we're all gonna die anyway. There goes that theory.
Brian
This is true. Over 95% of all of us will die at some point during our lifetimes. Think about that. :-\
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oh oh
I want to be in the 5%. Please sign me up for that group. I want to live forever! ;) :D ;D
Thus I am wearing an ear piece in my good ear that leads to my cell ..through a fiddly tangely cable -and not placing it right next to my head as a precautionary... I am going to protect that last working ear of mine ... and you can all laugh at me if you want to... so nah... :P
DHM :D
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oh oh
I want to be in the 5%. Please sign me up for that group. I want to live forever! ;) :D ;D
DHM :D
He said "over 95%" which means it could be less than that. I'm not sure if I want to live forever or not. Does this mean we never grow old, or does this mean we keep getting older but never die? ;)
Brian
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WOW! What an interesting topic on a day when I need some intellectual stimulation. I remember reading in the National Enquirer recently that cell phones do in fact cause acoustic neuromas. I was reading NE while standing in line at the grocery store, of course! My AN was diagnosed in 2005, and I got a cell phone in 2006. My, my, I bet the docs are gonna get rich treating all of these ANs in the future what with all of these people having cell phones glued to their ears all of the time. And, then the lawyers are going to be busy with the lawsuits against the cell phone companies. As for lettuce, I have eaten it all of my life, and I do have mental health issues so maybe that one is true. As for the granite countertop, I wish the woman would have given them to me (that stuff is expensive). I am sure my formica is causing more harm. I don't eat fish so I don't have to worry about lead. . . . On a side note. My 95 year old grandmother got hit by a big SUV while crossing the street a couple of years ago. She was thrown ten feet up in the air and landed on her back. All she wanted was her hearing aids and her purse back. Luckily her hearing aids made it just fine when they popped out of her ears (do I "hear" commercial material!). She just turned 95 on Friday, June 13th of this year (she was born on Friday, June 13, 1913), and she is still running around without the use of a walker. Oh, and she grew up eating lard, fried chicken and all of that bad stuff, and she is still ticking. So, just shows that no matter what, sometimes life is just the luck of the draw no matter what. I personally think these ANs are just plain bad luck. Just thought I'd give my two cents while we are having fun!
Nancy
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This has to be the best thread I've read today - hands down!
Thanks for the many chuckles, guys! :D
Jan - hoping to live to be 204
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Well,
My grandmother is 95 as I stated above. The doctors think she will live to be at least a hundred. Her sister is 94, and their mother (my great grandmother) died when she was 90. Maybe I have that gene in me, and I'll live to be 105--oh, let's make it 110. BTW, my grandmother has dementia, and when she was in the hospital recovering from the car accident, she kept saying, "What happened to me?" When we told her she got hit by a car while crossing the street, she just said, "Well, I must be pretty tough!" Five minutes later she asked the same question, and we gave her the same answer. . . . . . I think all of you here are pretty "tough cookies". May we all live to be 110!!! OK, Jan you can live to be 204. Somebody has to keep this board going and it might as well be you!!!
Nancy
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OK, Jan you can live to be 204. Somebody has to keep this board going and it might as well be you!!!
Works for me ;)
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Does this mean we never grow old ...?
No – just not grow UP…. ;) :D ;D
DHM
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This thread has made me laugh just about as much as when Steven told me he said AFLAC in his hearing test!
I am still laughing about that one (hysterically).
Nancy
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I meant STEVE, the guy who knits hats! My son's name is STEVEN so it was only my mistake that I called you STEVEN instead of STEVE. You are probable a Stephen anyway. Or maybe you are in the witness protection program like Jim, and STEVE isn't your real name either.
Nancy
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Hi all,
Herberman was on BBC Radio 4 on Friday talking about his views on mobile phones and cancer. He quoted the 'Interphone Study' as showing an increased risk of cancer with long term mobile phone use and the increase in numbers of the 'cancerous tumour Acoustic Neuroma' over the last five years. Then linked them to mobile phone use...
GRRR!
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You are probable a Stephen anyway.
Yup.
Herberman .. quoted the 'Interphone Study' as showing ... the increase in numbers of the 'cancerous tumour Acoustic Neuroma' over the last five years.
There goes his credibility...if he had any.
Besides, everyone knows that acoustic neuromas are caused by working in a fish hatchery:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0BUM/is_1_79/ai_59519791
Steve
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Sort of thought this was a "fishy" subject!
Nancy
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Gosh Steve,
I thought you were just kidding about the fish hatchery until I checked out the website. Please forgive me for thinking you were making up stuff. I see you have really been doing your research. You are to be commended!!! I will now take you more seriously!
Nancy