Author Topic: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital  (Read 5662 times)

bajaceresa

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Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« on: February 06, 2011, 01:07:49 am »
I have a 3.5cm AN and SSD. I have visited with two neuro-otologists, one from a private hospital and the other from a public, teaching hospital. One of the doctors recommends the translab approach and the other recommends retromastoid. Both will bring in neurosurgeons for surgery. Considering the size of my tumor, I have many concerns and wonder why, other than the doctors' familiarity with their chosen approach, I should consider one over the other. I've read most of the posts on this board and it seems to me that if hearing preservation is not an issue, then the translab approach has a lower probability of headaches, either post-op or chronic, than retromastoid. A third neurosurgeon who has no monetary interest in my surgery is strongly recommending retromastoid as he feels there is less risk of facial nerve palsy and much lower risk of CSF leak. So much for the questions about approach. Now for thoughts on private vs. teaching hospital. It is my understanding that the teaching hospital has the latest and greatest equipment and a slew of neurosurgeons on staff, but will want to use residents and not so experienced hands to assist the neurosurgeon and neuro-otologist during surgery. I have been assured that only the docs will touch be in my head. An attorney cautioned me that if god forbid I would suffer consequences as a result of malpractice, my remedy would be limited to 150K. I would rather be dead than in court, but this is certainly something to consider. Any thoughts from the Forum members would be greatly appreciated.

moe

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #1 on: February 06, 2011, 09:05:02 am »
Hi and Welcome to the forum!

I'm sure many people will chime in here, so here's my 2 cents worth and my experience in a nutshell :)

You are right about the hearing thing- translab is usually used if there is no hope in saving hearing. My surgeon said this approach gives better view of the tumor. I had no chronic post op headache issues, just other issues ::) My tumor had completely squashed the facial nerve and it was a bloody tumor, so there wasn't much he could do to save the facial nerve. Don't let this scare you, does NOT happen very often. I recuperated nicely. No dizziness either, post op, because my other side had completely compensated.

I've had many surgeries, as you can see, and both in "teaching" hospitals. University of WA in Seattle, and Madigan Army in Tacoma. They tend to do more surgeries and are more experienced, I think, because it IS a teaching hospital. I too worried about someone else messing with my brain/nerves. The residents do a lot of prep work, and may assist in the preliminary, but the surgeon does the real work. They probably do more of the AN surgeries too.

Hope that helps. What part of the country are you in? Maybe someone can chime in about their doctor.

Again, welcome, glad you signed in :) We're here for ya :)
Maureen

06/06-Translab 3x2.5 vascular L AN- MAMC,Tacoma WA
Facial nerve cut,reanastomosed.Tarsorrhaphy
11/06. Gold weight,tarsorrhaphy reversed
01/08- nerve transposition-(12/7) UW Hospital, Seattle
5/13/10 Gracilis flap surgery UW for smile restoration :)
11/10/10 BAHA 2/23/11 brow lift/canthoplasty

rupert

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #2 on: February 06, 2011, 09:48:49 am »

     I'll add my opinion too even though I had Gk ( at a teaching hospital ).  I saw several neurosurgeons about surgery and did a lot of research on the
different approaches.   I think you will find that doctors have a comfort level with one procedure over another and that is what they prefer to do if they
can.   They say that translab gives a better access,  but if the surgeon is more comfortable and more experienced in retrosig then they will prefer that.  I/E.
if they have done 10 translab and 50 retrosigs,  you get the idea.  If you go to three different doc's you will probably get three different perspectives on
treatment.   It is then up to you,  whom you would be most comfortable with and who is best for the job.   No easy task as you read these forums you will see.
   As far as the teaching hospital,  here's my take on that.  The doc who has preformed 200 AN surgeries didn't start out at 100.  They started out at 1.  Under
heavy supervision I assume.  I am sure it is very controlled  and limited as to what interns can and cannot do in these cases.  Also,  I believe that not just
anyone gets to be a neurosurgeon.  They wouldn't be in those positions if they weren't smart and talented.  The doc that is assisting may very well end up being
the number one doc to go to after a few under the belt.   The important thing here is that if they are going to have interns assist that they relate this to you
so you can make a decision on feeling comfortable with that.  I think most doc's would gladly have a chat with you about this,  as they were the new guy once too.

Tod

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #3 on: February 06, 2011, 10:40:55 am »
You raise good questions. In the end I think it comes down to the experience of the docs and your level of comfort with the docs you pick.

My tumor was a bit larger than yours and extended pretty far down towards the neck. My decision was really between HEI and a teaching hospital. Why? Because I am senior administrator in a state higher education office and have been involved professionally in higher education for two decades and literally grew up on college campuses. It was an ethical consideration to me that raised the question: do I believe in what I ma a part of?

After meeting the neurotologist and neurosurgeon at the local medical school, I had no doubts about the decision. I raised the issue of residents and was told in unconditional terms that while residents will assist in the room, the only ones working inside my skull would be the two of them.

It also helped that their recommendations and estimates for the surgery were the same as HEI.

In the end though, it was far more difficult of surgery and they worked on me for almost 32 hours. Sheer dedication.

Because of that long surgery, I ended up being intubated for six days and had a variety of bedsores and wounds from tape, clamps, and other paraphernalia. I had swallowing difficulties and vocal cord paralysis on the left side. Left side facial paralysis as well.  All these problems but a team of specialists for every single issue. Not only did I have (and continue to have) extraordinary care, I was there for a parade of students and residents - I thought this was a good thing. My sister tells me that in the week she was staying with me in ICU, there was only one time I was not pleasant to a group.

My follow-up care has also been extraordinary. My surgeons are responsive via email. I have had more MRIs than you can shake a stick at - I believe it is a total of eight for the first year. They monitor me closely.

For me, being treated at a teaching hospital has been an overwhelmingly positive experience.

Whichever you choose, I hope your experience is at least as positive.

-Tod
Bob the tumor: 4.4cm x 3.9cm x 4.1 cm.
Trans-Lab and Retro-sigmoid at MCV on 2/12/2010.

Removed 90-95% in a 32 hour surgery. Two weeks in ICU.  SSD Left.

http://randomdatablog.com

BAHA implant 1/25/11.

28 Sessions of FSR @ MCV ended 2/9/12.

leapyrtwins

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #4 on: February 06, 2011, 11:13:10 am »
Some docs only do certain surgical approaches.  For example, my doc does translab and retrosigmoid while his partner does translab and mid-fossa. 

I chose retrosigmoid because I still had some useable hearing and I wanted my docs to try and save it.  I had no facial paralysis other than the first day or two in the hospital and I don't suffer from headaches.  But that's just me.  Everyone's outcome is unique.

IMO you need to go with the approach you feel is best and with the doctor you are most comfortable with. 

Malpractice shouldn't even be part of the equation.  No doctor - teaching hospital or private hospital - can guarantee you anything 100%.  If one has, steer clear of him/her.

Jan

Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

bajaceresa

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #5 on: February 06, 2011, 11:52:50 am »
Thank you all for your feedback. I actually live in Los Cabos, Mexico and as much as I would prefer to be at home for surgery, I don't believe the local hospital has the expertise required, although they may consider allowing experienced doctors from the mainland to come in to do the work. This option will be explored when I go home this week. I have an incredible friends in Denver, Colorado, as I lived here for 23 years before moving to Mexico, including two nurses, one retired, the other an LPN, who have offered to care for me in their home during post-op recovery (a gift from the gods, so to speak), so this is where I am seeking help. The teaching hospital is the University of Colorado Hospital (UCH). The private hospital would be one of the HealthOne facilities - Swedish Medical Center, Porter Hospital or Presbyterian/St. Luke's. I guess the good news is that I feel comfortable with both the neurotologists that I spoke with, and they have equal experience - about 400 surgeries each under their belts - but that equates to only about 1 surgery/month over the past 20-30 years for each of them, so that statistic does not instill warm fuzzies in me. But since AN is a rather rare condition, I understand why the numbers would be so low. I am meeting with the UCH neurosurgeon tomorrow and hopefully will have an opportunity to meet with, or a least have a phone consult with a HealthOne neurosurgeon. I have sent my records to House Ear Clinic for a consultation, but so far have not received a response. I am also considering House, and do have a friend in LA who would welcome me in his home, but the support there would be problematic and would require that my husband shuts down his business during his very short "busy season" while he tends to me. This is a less appealing option. I am leaning towards UCH, but they are the ones who want to do retro, and as I stated earlier, I have no hearing left to lose.

Jim Scott

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #6 on: February 06, 2011, 04:32:06 pm »
Bajaceresa ~ 

I'm sorry I logged in too late to submit a timely response to your queries.  However, I'm going to take the liberty of offering my view, even if it does come tardily. 

In my opinion, selecting the doctor to perform the surgery is the paramount consideration.  Even more important than what surgical approach he may favor.  Once you find and engage a doctor to perform the surgery, one that you feel comfortable and confident with, the rest is easier.

In May, 2006 I was diagnosed with a 4.5 cm AN that was pressing hard on my brainstem.  I had been SSD for some time (years) and my symptoms were increasing almost daily.  I was blessed to discovery (through a recommendation from another neurosurgeon who didn't perform AN surgery) a highly experienced neurosurgeon who had (literally) decades of AN removal surgery experience and was very cognizant of and concerned about his patient's quality of life, post-op.  In my initial (45-minute, uninterrupted) consultation with this mature, compassionate physician, I expressed my concerns regarding facial paralysis and headaches.  He respected my concern and, more importantly, he shared it.  On that basis he proposed a two-stage approach to my AN.  First, a debulking surgery that would, in effect, 'gut' the tumor down to a thin membrane making it more susceptible to the effects of radiation .  Then, after a three-month 'rest period', he would team with a radiation oncologist to 'map' FSR treatments intended to destroy the tumor's DNA and effectively render it 'dead'.  He chose the Retrosigmoid surgical approach and when I asked why, he explained that it offered him the best possible access to the tumor.  I was satisfied with that logical explanation.   I inquired about the possibility of post-op headaches and he assured me that he took great care to do everything necessary to avoid generating them due to the surgery and that his AN surgical patients "didn't get headaches".  I was impressed - but still a tad skeptical.  I also asked about nerve monitoring and he said that he had a 'top notch' person he would 'bring in' to perform the necessary nerve monitoring.  I also asked about the use of interns.  The neurosurgeon assured me that he declined to utilize interns and residents.  He stated, (with a big smile) that when he was performing AN surgery: "the OR is no place for amateurs".  This doctor had a 'hand-picked' team of technicians and nurses that he used exclusively for AN surgery.  No students, although they could observe.  He was assisted by a young woman neurosurgeon he was mentoring.  She was part of his medical staff.  Long story short: the operation went splendidly and I suffered no real complications.  I was home in five days and recovered relatively quickly.  The FSR sessions, 90 days later, were uneventful with no ill effects at all.   Within two years the AN showed necrosis (cell death) and some minor shrinkage.    I should mention that I had made it clear I was retired and cost was an issue.  However, the doctor literally waved away my concern and told me to "focus on getting well and don't be worried about money".  He volunteered to accept whatever the insurance company (Blue Cross) paid.  He did so and I never received a bill from this doctor, although I ended up owing the anesthesiologist and the hospital about $2,000.   Today, approaching the five-year mark from my surgery, I'm doing great!  Incidentally, the doctor was true to his word in every respect; I never experienced a headache.   

I state all this to help make my point that sometimes choosing the doctor is the key and the surgical approach, facility and other associated issues will fall into place once you have the 'right' doctor (for you).  You appear to be doing your research and taking a pragmatic approach to making the crucial decisions so I think you'll make good choices.  I wish you success and hope you'll let us know what your final decision is.  Thanks.

Jim
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

bajaceresa

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 10:55:44 am »
Once again, I'd like to thank you all for your insight and willingness to share your experiences. I met with the neurosurgeon from the teaching hospital today; he was most enlightening and extremely generous with his time. I did send my records to House and expect to have a phone consultation with one on the doctors tomorrow evening. Once all options are known and fully considered, I'll make my decision and let you all know how things shake out.

lori67

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Re: Translab vs. retro - teaching hospital vs. private hospital
« Reply #8 on: February 10, 2011, 11:11:00 am »
I am a big fan of teaching hospitals.  Admittedly, it can be a pain in the neck getting woken up every 15 minutes by a different med student checking on you, but I'd much rather have 5 sets of eyes making sure I'm okay than just one.  The way I see it, those students have had their nose in the books a lot more recently than the guy who's been at it for 30 years.  Always nice to have a fresh perspective to add to the experience.  I've been the student many times, as a nurse and a PT, and I truly appreciate the patients that allowed me to learn from them.

I think I had a zillion students at my surgery.  Must have been quite a crowd in the OR.  I also agreed to let my experienced surgeon try out a piece of equipment on me that he later had patented.  (I should ask him if I get a cut of the profits on that.... ;))  I probably can't teach any of these people anything they don't already know, but if they can learn something from me that may help someone else in the future, then I'm all for it.

The decision making part is usually the hardest.  Once you have found the right doctor and the right approach for you, I'm sure you will feel much more at ease.

Good luck!
Lori
Right 3cm AN diagnosed 1/2007.  Translab resection 2/20/07 by Dr. David Kaylie and Dr. Karl Hampf at Baptist Hospital in Nashville.  R side deafness, facial nerve paralysis.  Tarsorraphy and tear duct cauterization 5/2007.  BAHA implant 11/8/07. 7-12 nerve jump 9/26/08.