Danish Experience

[Richard_DK]

Firstly I would like to congratulate on a fantastic site which was of great help to me.

I live in Copenhagen, Denmark. About 4 years ago I was diagnosed with AN and at that stage was 0.5cm. In my first consultation with the professor, I was told that only 25% of AN's grow. As a result, they would take the wait and watch approach to see if my AN would grow.

In Denmark all medical treatment is totally free !!!

After 2.5 years, it was clear that it was growing (1cm) and the doctor offered the retrosigmoid, which could preserve hearing. I decided not to take that operation due to the terrible problems some people had with chronic headaches, thanks to ANAUSA. He then offered retro labyrith, also preserve hearing no side effects but only for AN less the 1cm. However after a hearing test, I found that I had 32% hearing so we decided to have Translab.

Just for information, they decided to stop performing the retrosigmoid operation.

The operation was a fantastic success. I had balance problems for 3 days after the op whereafter it improved dramatically.

5 days after the op, I was driving my car with no problems. On day 6, I went on a short mountainbike ride. On day 8, I went on a 30km moutainbike ride on my own. I was back at work after 4 weeks fulltime.

I have just been to my 3 month checkup and told him that I feel completely normal.

Suprisingly enough the doctor said that by far most of their patients have a similar experience/result as I had.

He asked me to spread the good news ... so hence this contribution. The operation definitely has serious risk factors and the doctors are obliged to inform the patient of the risks, but his experience is that most operations that they perform are as successful as mine.

I would also like to praise the extremely competent doctors, Per and Svend-Erik. They work at the main hospital in Copenhagen in a centre of excellence and, in my biased opinion, are some of the best in the world.

I must also say I was very happy to be in a system where money was not the issue for the patient or the doctor.

I hope this will provide some positive input for those facing AN surgery.

[annamaria]

Richard,

Thanks. If I make a gross of $10,000 per month at work, exactly what is my final monthly take-home pay? I would really/sincerely appreciate to find out what the answer is.  Thanks.

Annamaria

[annamaria]

Someone told me that I would have to pay $4500/month in taxes or more; that is $55,000/year.  Not sure that is true. If that were true, that would be like paying for a typical U.S. AN surgery every year for my entire working life of 40 years?

Annamaria

[annamaria]

Richard,

First I should really (have) congratulated you in the big medical success you report. Excellent!

Just that leaving the idea that the medical procedure is “free”, however, is erroneous (I’m originally from Europe): you simply “pre-pay for it along the way”, and then if you needed it, that take the money you sent along already. Nothing is free in life …

Wikipedia says the tax in Denmark can be as high as 51.5%.  Denmark does not have a big military and does not big infrastructure.  That means that a lot of the money collected goes toward medical and social programs.  Sure, the doctors are happy! The taxes just mentioned do not include the additional Value Added Tax of 25% on (most?) of the things you buy, and $12 per gallon of gas.

So, if a professional made $10,000 a month, they may cough up $5,200 to the government; then if he/she spent $3,000 in purchases/expenditures, they pay another $750, of a total of about $6,000 per month in taxes; that is $72,000 per year (different incomes of course pay different amounts, but the rate seems to stay close to 50%.) That would be enough to pay for an AN surgery in the U.S.; of course we pay some taxes here too, but on $10,000 you might pay $2700 (e.g., see http://www.efile.com/tax-service/tax-calculator/), which is about half.

No system is perfect, but nothing is free, either …

Annamaria

[HappyGirl]

Richard,

Congratulations with your successful surgery!!  Are you Danish, or do you just live in Denmark?  I am Danish and will be there over the Christmas holiday (can't wait!!).  I'd love to talk to you to hear about your experience.  If you would be willing to do so, please IM your phone number, or I can IM my parent's number to you.

Annamaria,  I just wanted to let you know that Denmark has a great infrastructure system and a fantastic public transportation system.  Also, there is no such thing as college tuition and people are taken care off.  I hate seeing families that lose a child, only to end up with enormous medical bills, or people who have worked all their lives, only to lose their homes due to medical bills.  Also, the minimum wage in Denmark is app. $20, which definitely makes up the high tax rate.  Lastly, there's no deductible, co-pay, or insurance premium being taken out of your paycheck...

[mk]

Richard, thank you for sharing your experience.

Yes, the person making $10,000 a month pays a lot of taxes for all the services. But this ensures that the person making minimal wage also has access to the same services (education, health etc). So they can have the same excellent outcome as Richard describes and equitable opportunities in life.

Plus what I have never seen mentioned in these "tax discussions" is the huge property taxes that people pay in the States (and unfortunately this is starting to become an issue in Canada too), in some regions, which municipalities often are forced to charge, to make up for the lack of funding from upper government levels.

This discussion should not belong to the forum - no system is perfect and everyone is entitled to their opinion. I have noticed again and again that whenever someone comes on ranting about NHS (like a recent poster), or any other national health care system, some people will not miss the opportunity to jump in and comment on "how bad these systems are". And when someone comes in praising their system, then again people will jump in to point out how high the taxes are in these countries.
We get very frequently posters who are frustrated with their insurance in the States (or lack thereof), but the rest of us do not jump on each opportunity to offer our opinions about the system.

*End of rant* Moderators, sorry about this, but I wanted to get it out of my system, as there have been a couple of similar threads lately and I believe that this results in wrong impressions, if nobody responds. I don't plan to get involved in such a discussion on this (or any other thread), I do believe that it does not belong to the forum.

Richard, sorry for the hijack, congratulations again on your excellent outcome.

Marianna

[annamaria]

Marianna,

when a thread has a sentence such as "In Denmark all medical treatment is totally free !!!" with three esclamation points, then some forum members may indeed feel that the issue deserves some discussion within the same thread ... should such comment not be made, or not be made as a standalone paragraph and with such emphasis, then the discussion would not necessarily come up. I'm originally from Europe and I have been in the States for a number of years.  No system is perfect (as noted earlier.)

[As a clarification, when I said that there wasn't extensive infrastructure I wasn't referring to there not being transportation -- I was implying that there weren't 500,000 bridges to be maintained or millions of miles of highways to be fixed; hence, the cost of the infrastructure was low, from which one could infer that a large portion of the expenditures went for social programs.]

I am not saying that this or that is bad. That social expenditures are good or bad. I was just saying that nothing is free; you (or somebody) has to pay one way or another -- that was my point.

Annamaria

[Jim Scott]

Annamaria ~

I can easily understand your reaction to Richard's comment that "in Denmark, all medical treatment is totally free"  (with 3 exclamation points). 

Although it's a factual comment (as far as it goes) I agree with your observation that health care in Denmark - or anywhere in the world - is not truly free and that the small (approximately 5.5 million, less than the population of Manhattan) homogeneous nation (90% of the population is of Danish ancestry) that produced the Vikings, Hans Christian Andersen, Neils Bohr and Victor Borge, among other notables, has it's own problems and they include a very low economic growth rate (less than the U.S.) and an exodus of Danish youth that leave for countries with lower taxes.  So, I agree with Marianna that 'no system' is perfect', including socialist systems in tiny countries with minimal military obligations that have no relation to America with it's very diverse population that is so much larger than Denmark (312 million to Denmark's 5.5 million) that it is simply not comparable - not to mention the kind of expenses the U.S. government has that small countries like Denmark simply do not have to deal with, such as serious terrorism threats.  Currently some 30 million Americans receive some sort of 'welfare' payments.  There are many federal and state 'programs' available for those in need, so the U.S. is already half-way to socialism.  The kind that has worked so well in Europe and that some want to see here for reasons that I cannot understand.  Well, I can speculate, but as Marianna stated, these AN forums are not the proper venue for these kinds of arguments.  We exist to inform, advise and support AN patients, not bicker over what are, ultimately, 'political' issues. 

On that note, I'll offer my congratulations to Richard and thank him for his contribution - and kind words for the AN website forums.  I would like to see the discussion regarding health care systems in other countries end here.  If anyone wishes to continue, please use the PM system.  My in box is open.  However, if anyone persists in going off-topic we'll have to lock the thread.  Something we rarely have to do on these usually congenial forums. Thanks for your cooperation. 

Jim

[Richard_DK]

It was not my intention to provoke a political discussion or critisize any system. I just wanted to share my personal positive experiences and the factors to that contributed to that experience.

I have lived in many countries and as a result experienced many different health systems from the the insurance model to the socialistic model, and had both good and bad experiences in all the systems.

However, I was extremely happy to have a highly educated doctor who was focused on the best treatment without being influenced by financial considerations.

Just to answer some points:

* I am married to Lene, who is Danish and I have lived here for 12 years
* Yes, the taxes are high, I pay around 50% on all my income