Author Topic: New to AN  (Read 3676 times)

AD

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New to AN
« on: March 25, 2007, 03:37:15 pm »
First Questions from AD re CK and AN

I was recently diagnosed with a left Acoustic Neuroma, approximately 1.3 CM (just under 13 mm) in size.  My only real symptoms are hearing loss (mild loss in lower and upper ranges and moderate loss for language communication) and slight, but constant tinnitus, which, frankly I had not really noticed prior to diagnosis.  I do have some occasional mild earache and headaches, but I’ve had sinus headaches all my life, so I doubt that the AN can be blamed for most of them.  I am prone to motion sickness and haven’t been able to tolerate amusement rides since I was about 12 (I’m a Baby Boomer – yes, one of those); and, again, no one seems to thinks the AN is the cause of this. 

I have seen the one of the top neurosurgeons in the area and he says, given my situation, that regular invasive surgery (which he performs) and radiation surgery (His office uses the Cyberknife.) are equally good options and that I should ask a lot of questions and then go with what “feels rightâ€? for me.  Right now, I am leaning toward the radiation and the attachment includes some first questions about the whole matter:

1.   The CK Center here (Austin, Tx) has only been using the CK for two years and I wonder if that is long enough to be considered experienced and to really have a track record, since the results of CK are not quickly known. Would it be wise to contact Stanford? I work for a large national company that uses BC/BS out of Minnesota but applies to the entire country.

2.   What are the most reliable statistics regarding the outcomes for AN for invasive surgery vs. CK or GK? What I am most concerned about is the risk of facial paralysis and all that goes with that. I travel all over the country, working with and presenting to clients in K-12 education.

3.    RE hearing -- I am a little less concerned about the hearing, as it appears that neither option will make that better and both will probably make it worse. It also seems that worsened tinnitus is a probability with both. How true are these perceptions that I've gleaned from the content on the web, publications of the AN society, and from the neurosurgeon? He said that, as far as he was concerned, the CK always resulted in hearing loss, that "raging tinnitus" could not be considered to have "saved hearing."

4.   If I do go with CK, what are the side effects that I can expect? For the first year, should I expect the symptoms I have now to remain the same, get better, or get worse? These symptoms are hearing loss as described above and slight tinnitus. I am also experiencing some earache and some headaches; on the other hand, I have had sinus headaches most of my life, so I don't tbink I can blame all of that on the AN. Also, I have been prone to motion sickness since I was about 12 (I'm a Baby Boomer --- yes, one of those!), so no one seems to thinks that the proneness to motion sickness has to do with the AN.

5.   I understand that either option has risks of not working or of unfortunate side effects. What is the probabilityof each with CK or with surgery? I guess that's the same question as before. However, if I go with CK and the tumor grows at an unacceptable rate, what are the options then, if any? How long before doctors can provide a conclusion as to whether or not the CK has worked?

6.   I understand also that it is common for the tumor to swell at first and that, after 6 months, it may appear to have "grown," but that no growth or a reduction in size should be apparent at one year after treatment. Is this correct?

Lots of questions, I know, but I imagine they are the ones most people ask.


Thanks, thanks, thanks -----   


er

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #1 on: March 25, 2007, 03:57:14 pm »
I am sorry about your newly found But you will be ok as I have also found out I am also new to the forum but I'm 2 years into my po
All your questions over whelm me. So I cannot help you that are one of the conditions that I ended up with. :-\ But I noticed this place has a lot of people that can help you
Bless you and good luck.

Obita

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #2 on: March 25, 2007, 05:38:53 pm »
Hi AD, I am glad you found us.  There are many radiation patients on here that will give you their opinion on your GK/CK questions.

I had surgery almost three years ago.  I am fine except I am deaf in my left ear.  I chose the Translab approach because my tumor was much larger than yours and my usable hearing was gone.  My main goal was keeping my facial nerve intact if at all possible. 

Unfortunately there are cons to all treatment for ANs.  All you can do is see as many doctors as you want, research a ton and make your decision based on what you feel is right for you. 

I have tinnitus now and I also did before surgery.  Lucky me, it is no worse. Before surgery I could hear some things.  I just couldn't understand anyone on the phone.  I personally think some hearing is better than no hearing.  I can't tell where sound is comming from and it does drive me nuts.  Anyone that calls my name at work needs to say: "Kathy, to your right" or it would be 360 degree spin for me until I found them.  The other bad thing about SSD is emergency sirens.......I have no clue which direction the vehicle is until I can see the red lights.  I don't regret my decision one bit but I really wish I could hear just a bit again out of my bad ear.  I am just not sure I buy that statement that raging tinnitus is the same as deafness.  Anone else out there that can still hear some and has tinnitus???  Your opinion?

So AD, good luck these next few months.  You will be busy.  Please know that once you do decide, the norm is to be relaxed about your decision and very anxious to get it over with.

Kathy





Kathy - Age 54
2.5 cm translab May '04
University of Minnesota - Minneapolis
Dr. Sam Levine - Dr. Stephen Haines

Lorenzo

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #3 on: March 26, 2007, 12:41:08 am »
HI AD,

These are my own experiences and may not apply to you or others.

First of all I would suggest you contact your radiosurgeon and ask those questions directly. Alternatively you could go to http://www.cyberknifesupport.org/forum/ and ask the doctors there, they are very good at answering all sorts of questions, including about GK if they can.

To answer some of your questions:

1 Experience is important, yes. However, all doctors and technicians that use CK are highly trained, so theoretically it shouldn't be such a major concern. PErsonally I went for Stanford as I had to travel around the world to get CK, so might as well go for the top.

2 Those questions are probably best answered by the docs on the CK support group, or some people here may have the answer to that. I don't.

3 Hearing preservation has a higher chance with CK than other methods as far as I know. BUT, if the hearing is not great to start with, it will not improve. Mine got worse over the two years, by about 5%, to a level of uselessness. This said, for me it wasn't the reason to go the CK route. Hearing was useless before treatment anyway.

4 Post-treatment effects: again this varies from person to person. So this is what I experienced. EXTREME fatigue for about 8 months. Louder tinnitus, problems with concentration, worsening hearing, some slight headaches. Overall symptoms got worse for a while, yes. Tumour swelled by about 10 - 15% over the first year, causing some of those symptoms. BUT, after about a year and a bit symptoms decreased again, fatigue returned to normal levels and nearly vanished and all the other symptoms retuned to pre op levels. Now, two years later, energy levels are back (since past the 18 months mark), tumour has shrunk back to a smaller size than before treatment. Only remaining thing is spelling and writing problems (like dyslexia) and some really odd sleeping pattern. Everything else is fine. Except hearing, it's still lower than before treatment, and not expected to change for the better.

5 Usually the post-treatment period for establishing if the CK worked or not is about 3 years. In my case necrosis is apparent since 18 months and continuing. Whatever the side effects were and what i wen through, it was all manageable and i would do EXACTLY the same treatment if I was in the same position again, if that was available to me. I have absolutely no regrets having chosen CK.

Hope this helps. I'm sure others probably have more points and clarifications. again, this is based on my own experience and not everybody has the same effects.

Good luck with it all.

Lorenzo






ppearl214

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #4 on: March 26, 2007, 06:51:56 am »
Hi AD and welcome. Good to see you here.  I have to mirror much of what Lorenzo has written as I'm just now 1 yr post CK and have seen (short term) much of what he has written.  He writes rather well for being across the pond ;)  *blows kiss to Lorenzo*

To answer your questions, as it pertains to me:

1.   The CK Center here (Austin, Tx) has only been using the CK for two years and I wonder if that is long enough to be considered experienced and to really have a track record, since the results of CK are not quickly known. Would it be wise to contact Stanford? I work for a large national company that uses BC/BS out of Minnesota but applies to the entire country.

*I had my treatment at Beth Israel, approx 1-2 yrs after they got the CK.  I had no qualm in their qualifications to do the CK treatment as I researched their training and follow ups with other leading CK treatment centers as well as Accuray (the manufacturer of the CK system).  Knowing they were qualified to do the treatment, I chose them without batting an eyelash.

2.   What are the most reliable statistics regarding the outcomes for AN for invasive surgery vs. CK or GK? What I am most concerned about is the risk of facial paralysis and all that goes with that. I travel all over the country, working with and presenting to clients in K-12 education.

*Low risk facial paralysis and such with CK.  Since the beam conforms to the unusual shape of each individual AN, the chances are lower that surrounding critical structures are affected by the beam (ie: brainstem, facial nerve, etc). 

3.    RE hearing -- I am a little less concerned about the hearing, as it appears that neither option will make that better and both will probably make it worse. It also seems that worsened tinnitus is a probability with both. How true are these perceptions that I've gleaned from the content on the web, publications of the AN society, and from the neurosurgeon? He said that, as far as he was concerned, the CK always resulted in hearing loss, that "raging tinnitus" could not be considered to have "saved hearing."


*CK does not always result in hearing loss. As a matter of fact, CK and FSR show a lower rate of hearing loss due to the fractionated treatment, thus, better chance of hearing preservation (again, min. hit to critical structures).  As with any form of treatment, risks are there and nothing is guaranteed in life, but hearing preservation is over 90% chance.  In my case, I am 1 yr post CK and at last hearing test (10 mos post treatment), I have 100% of my hearing for what it was at time of treatment, so I am a good stat of CK hearing preservation.

4.   If I do go with CK, what are the side effects that I can expect? For the first year, should I expect the symptoms I have now to remain the same, get better, or get worse? These symptoms are hearing loss as described above and slight tinnitus. I am also experiencing some earache and some headaches; on the other hand, I have had sinus headaches most of my life, so I don't tbink I can blame all of that on the AN. Also, I have been prone to motion sickness since I was about 12 (I'm a Baby Boomer --- yes, one of those!), so no one seems to thinks that the proneness to motion sickness has to do with the AN.

*Lorenzo outlined wonderfully potential side affects.  I did run into fatigue (still some on occassion) as well as enhanced tinnitus (very tolerable in my case) for the first 2 mos post treatment.  All side affects, for me, have now subsided and I only have extremely rare intermittent tinnitus. 

5.   I understand that either option has risks of not working or of unfortunate side effects. What is the probabilityof each with CK or with surgery? I guess that's the same question as before. However, if I go with CK and the tumor grows at an unacceptable rate, what are the options then, if any? How long before doctors can provide a conclusion as to whether or not the CK has worked?

*In the case of CK, it's the first 3 yrs that truly show that the CK treatment has worked. Beginning stages of end result can start to show in the first 6-12 mos (in my case, we saw beginning stages at 8 mos) and it will take the first 3 yrs for determination that the CK treatment has been affective.

6.   I understand also that it is common for the tumor to swell at first and that, after 6 months, it may appear to have "grown," but that no growth or a reduction in size should be apparent at one year after treatment. Is this correct?

*Correct.  Some report some minor size decrease (which has been seen with mine) but the ultimate goal of any form of radio-surgery is to kill the core DNA of the growth, not necessarily size reduction.

I hope this helps and wish you well in this decision making process. I hope others chime in as well to answer from the surgical perspective.

Good to see you here.

Phyl


"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Lorenzo

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #5 on: March 26, 2007, 07:19:02 am »
 :) Thanks Phyl, glad you chimed in and clarified a few things... 
Ciao

Lorenzo

RED in Palacios

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #6 on: April 02, 2007, 03:08:31 pm »
Hello AD,
I appreciate your questions and the responses you have generated very much.  I may one day face the same choices you have and the information that has been provided to you has certainly helped me also.  My AN remains small (9mm X 3.6 mm) but it's location has destroyed the hearing in my left ear completely. I will be very interested to hear from you as your treatment progresses and hope you will keep us posted as to your progress.  There are many fine sources of information available to us now but the info I get from this forum has helped me more than any thing else I've come across.  Thanks to all of you and continued good luck to AD.
Richard
Diagnosed 10-16-06.  3.6 mm by 9 mm.  Waiting and watching actively.

macintosh

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Re: New to AN
« Reply #7 on: April 02, 2007, 03:43:11 pm »
A few notes--

The U. of Pittsburgh site (Google <University Pittsburgh Acoustic Neuroma>) has the most comprehensive info I've seen on comparative success rates. The top places (Stanford, Hopkins, Pitt) claim something like 95-98% success rates. The differences are probably within the margin of error of the studies.

The rate of facial paralysis from radiosurgery has been less than 1% since the standard treatment doses were reduced in the mid-1990s. As far as swelling goes, many studies have slightly different rates, but one large study indicated that about 30% of ANs swell and/or grow in the first year, and remain larger than they were at treatment, but as long as they stop growing after that, it's not a problem. In that study, they indicated that only 2% of treated ANs required further treatment. A good site for peer-reviewed articles is pubmed.gov, using the search string <acoustic neuroma radiosurgery>.

I had radiosurgery two months ago for a small AN, and have had no change in symptoms (diminished but useful hearing and mild tinnitus on the AN side). I went back to  work the next day. I didn't see the need to travel across the country for a small, simple AN. I went to Shands Hospital at the U. of Florida, which is in my HMO network and has a head of neurosurgery who authored an article on the success of radiosurgery at Shands in the Journal of Neurosurgery in Nov. 2006. So I felt very comfortable with him.

Good luck with yours,

Mac