Author Topic: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery  (Read 11507 times)

jerseygirl

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Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« on: May 22, 2007, 04:11:11 pm »
Just got off the phone with SBI asking why Vit. E, Gingko Biloba and fish oil are not part of the prohibited medicatons list that include aspirin, coumadin, warfarin,etc. . Every single surgeon of all specialties warned me about taking them before the surgery. The answer was that this is a different type of surgery, "it's relatively bloodless, like a finger prick". So, I guess, that means there is actually a lower risk of bleeding with the endoscopic surgery than with the traditional one. I thought that was interesting so I decided to share. Any thoughts on this?

                         Eve

 
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.

tony

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #1 on: May 23, 2007, 12:28:34 am »
carefull, carefull, carefull, I was on "St Johns Wort" pre the shunt OP
I told all before the OP - but somehow the surgery team was unaware (!!??!)
...bit like a fire hydrant...apparently
The main planned surgery may only be minimal
perhaps best not to chance fate ?
Best Regards
Tony
ps beware blood thining products pre-OP...

ppearl214

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #2 on: May 23, 2007, 05:47:00 am »
Hi Eve,

Tony is certainly correct.  As with any medical condition, please share with your physician an exact list of "medications" that you take, which also should include non-Rx meds (which you certainly did and hope others do as well).  Most times, when meeting with a physician, they usually ask for a list of meds that you are taking and all should be disclosed so they know what you are taking and how to treat you properly.  They should (hopefully) know what a particular med is for and how it affects the system.  If there is any question regarding a natural remedy (such as Vit E, Gingko Biloba, etc) and its potential affect on you for an upcoming procedure, IMO, a patient should remove themselves off of the meds (with the dr's knowledge) a minimum of 1-2 wks prior to treatment.

Again, just a thought......

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

jerseygirl

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2007, 06:23:43 am »
Tony and Phyl,

Thanks for your replies. I will stop these 2 weeks before surgery which means my tinnitus and groggy feeling will be back on the pre-op day. However, better safe than sorry. I will ask the doc at the pre-op meeting for more clarification and when I can take these again.

                     Eve
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.

ceeceek

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #4 on: May 26, 2007, 06:30:42 am »
Hey Eve, how the heck are ya?, my nerve pain is finally getting better...yeah for acupuncture...in fact felt well enough to mow the grass re riding lawn mower..now, I have my face covered in poison ivy..I swear if its not one thing its another....
acupuncture totally helped though for those who may have trigeminal or vidian nerve damage....as far as Vit E, and fish oil..and speaking as an herbal student for my master herbalist degree.....these are fine to take before during and after surgery...I would personally skip the gingko...it affects memory and a few other interesting hormones..and also, I do not think it is a good supplement in general...too many effects.....
Dr S is correct that this is different type of surgery though and bleeding should not be an issue.
In regards to supplements before surgery, they primarily look for substances that affect the blood platelets themselves....change the actual formation of them, which Vit e and fish oil do not.....Vit E can but only in really really really large doses and I cannot imagine you a taking enough to cause that effect. If Dr S is not worried about it, I would not discontinue them...fish oil is a good one to take and will help promote healing of the tissue as will Vit E. Just dont go crazy with dose.
Give me a ring, let me know how you are doing..I was hoping to go back to work last week, but wasnt happening...but will probably return this coming weekend....trying to enjoy a little time off....re-arrange furniture, spring cleaning etc now that I finally feel human more or less....I get tired easier, but overall other than poison ivy, am much better......auuughhh leave it to me..
Ceecee
Such is life...Finally identified...vidian nerve schwanomma, 2.8x2.8x3cm.....in the middle but under my brain.....post transphenoidal endoscopic surgery April 19th, 2007 Pre CK treatment in Sept 07.....re-arranged cavity in hopes of reducing side effects and now officially diagnosed as hard headed.

jerseygirl

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #5 on: May 29, 2007, 06:51:49 pm »
Ceecee,

So happy to hear that acupuncture is working for you! Take your time with going back to work, don't rush.

Since you are our master herbalist, please, let us know why Gingko Biloba is not a very good supplement and what could be the potential side effects. Yes, in my experience,it does affect memory but in a positive way - it makes it better! It also makes me more alert which was the effect I was looking for when I started taking it. I had a horrendous first surgery if you remember, so I ended up a groggy, sleepy person. The biggest prize with Gingko for me was complete stopping of tinnutis which drove me nuts for years. In fact, when it returns, I know that I skipped Gingko for a couple of weeks because I forgot to buy more when it ran out.

Also, what would you consider a crazy dose of Vit E and fish oil? How much is too much?

                            Eve
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.

ceeceek

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #6 on: May 29, 2007, 08:28:27 pm »
I am really hesitant to give exact doses on this board as each individual case will vary depending upon your personal blood work, diet, amount of excercise, fluid intake, hormone levels etc. I would say IN GENERAL......disclaimer noted for everyone.....1000mg of Vit E is way more than sufficient, it is usually dispensed in this size capsule or 500mg. Fish oil in combination with varying other oils such as flax seed...Great supplement by the way, and may help with tinnitus as well, is usually dispensed at or around 500mg daily. Fish oil is a little hard to overdose upon as it will generally simply pass through, what you do not use.
GInko... I am not totally against, but feel if you supplement other natural foods such as apples, fresh fruit, high dose of those nasty leafy greens, you will gain better benefit of energy,,,I personally like the new V8 juices that are actually veggies that taste like fruit......Also, you want to make sure your body is absorbing what you are putting into it.....cannot stress this part enough.......tummy must be working proper along with intestines.......the new Activia, and Dannon products for digestion are really great products, easy to access, not expensive and work well. One thing we often overlook is whether or not our digestive systems are using what we put into it. And to top this off, our diet in AMercia is not so great and causes a variety of not so nice fermentation, little worms..trust me you do not want to know....and a breeding ground for other little nastys....plus a build up along the walls so nutrients are not digested properly......due to natural enzymes that would normally be good for us, but are stripped from our food due to processing and cooking.........so, it helps to just make your tummy and intestines work better to begin with for general purpose sake....
GInko, has the ability to thin the blood, creating faster blood supply to the brain..henceforth the quicker thinking and why I think it should be discontinued before surgery....kind of a natural blood thinner...but on a different principle than say aspirin...hard to get into specifics on this short of forum...... It is a little harsh on your liver and kidneys..not a product that we would ordinariilary find in a natural diet and henceforth, I try and stay away from products that I would not find within a NORMAL diet...remember the old addage, that we are what we eat,,,if we are not eating as we should then supplements are  great...but when you start to supplement items that would not ordinarily be in our diet,,,,,,,that I take caution with.....only an opinion.....plenty of people love it....but...I know several people whom took it, and it actually decreased memory function....
I just try and stick with the very basic concepts of what we would, if in a perfect environment, would  eat, what we would  gain nutrient wise from that food, and what would it do......if you tend to stick with that basic principle then supplementing becomes pretty easy.
If your body is say trying to heal itself,  and have say an extra need for a particular type of vitamin etc that you would not get in an ordinary diet such as.... eating say 12 fish a day, or 12 pounds of flax seed would be a little hard...so then extra supplementation can be called upon.....but for general health, I highly suggest that you stick with what in a perfect world we would eat....and this means not overly processed food, no pesticides, no fertilizers etc....organic is great but not tooooo practical and that is where supplementation comes into play.
You only want to make up for what we are not actually getting that in a perfect world we would be.....remember, whether you believe in creationism or evolution both theories apply....in order to evolve, everything we need is supplied for our continued growth and evolvement....if we were created then everything we need is supplied by a greater power......
Flax seed oil is a great supplement, and we do not eat in the typical american diet, enough of this type of oil....it is now actually recommended by the AMA for Dry Eye...and works well., after reading a little more info, I will see what if any benefits it may have in regards to tinnitus as it may be connected to same nerve series......I will see what I can find out in regards to tinnitus,,,and gingko may be recommended as top cure,,,but I would just for safety sake discontinue before surgery for a week at least.....

Not master herbailist yet....still working on regular BS degree in marketing as well as master herbailist studies at Clayton College.....but I have been studying and working towards it for years and have some good general....note general knowledge...but have access to great resources...which I rely upon heavily....One thing nice about herbal community...still has idea of sharing info...
Ceecee
Such is life...Finally identified...vidian nerve schwanomma, 2.8x2.8x3cm.....in the middle but under my brain.....post transphenoidal endoscopic surgery April 19th, 2007 Pre CK treatment in Sept 07.....re-arranged cavity in hopes of reducing side effects and now officially diagnosed as hard headed.

jerseygirl

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #7 on: May 29, 2007, 10:09:43 pm »
Ceecee,

Everything you said was great advice and I agree wholeheartedly. Moreover, my diet has been great for many years with plenty of fruit, vegetables, probiotics and no junk food. No greasy hamburgers and hot dogs for me, not even on Memorial Day. I do have to mention that the first surgery in 1988 left me with greatly reduced functionality and stamina, both physical and mental. Surgeons do not want to admit it but the surgery to remove the huge tumor I had is the same as traumatic brain injury, just iatrogenic. I have to make a lot less heroic efforts to concentrate for a long period of time if I am on Gingko. It is worth it to me as it allows me to function longer and well enough to fall in the normal range again. I have blood tests to check liver and kidneys every year and Gingko seems to be a safer solution than Ritalin and Prozac as I have no side effects and so many positive happenings from it.

Another reason I think it is working for me is that the original tumor had a few large blood vessels running through it that had to be cauterized. So, after surgery, my brain was left with less blood supply. Since Gnigko increases the blood supply to the brain, it compensates somewhat for the loss. It is my normalizer, so to speak. I am really glad I found it.

                         Eve
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.

ceeceek

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #8 on: June 03, 2007, 08:31:54 am »
That would be a  perfect example of having to supplement extra that would not be found in a normal diet due to an extra need. I am glad it is working for you. I do not disagree with the product, just tend to think that people jump on the bandwagon and overdo it....for surgery you will need to discontinue it...but you should be able to start again after about a week depending on your progress...
I am glad you have liver function etc tested as that is the true way to determine if your body is making good use of it..and obviously it is.
I am still trying to find info about tinnitus...I will update when I can..In meantime, I know you must be getting anxious re upcoming surgery so hang in there, We are all cheering you on. You will do great this time, and I am sure find it a much easier recovery.
Ceecee
Such is life...Finally identified...vidian nerve schwanomma, 2.8x2.8x3cm.....in the middle but under my brain.....post transphenoidal endoscopic surgery April 19th, 2007 Pre CK treatment in Sept 07.....re-arranged cavity in hopes of reducing side effects and now officially diagnosed as hard headed.

kat

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #9 on: June 04, 2007, 08:00:16 am »
Hi Jerseygirl

Am I right in assuming from your post that Gingko Biloba and fish oil reduces your tinnitus ? I have had a tub of Gingko biloba
just sitting in a cupboard since I saw an TV programme about it having some negative side effects . It was a while back and I
cannot now recall what they were .

Good luck with the surgery .

Regards Kat
2.2 cm AN diagnosed July 2004 . GK at  the Royal Hallamshire
Sheffield UK in April 2005 2nd MRI in December 06 showed signs of the AN shrinking and MRI in FEB 08 showed no change . SO FAR SO GOOD .

jerseygirl

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Re: Vit E, Gingko Biloba and Fish Oil before surgery
« Reply #10 on: June 04, 2007, 06:02:01 pm »
Hi, Kat,

I started taking Gingko a few years after my first surgery to increase my alertness. I felt that I was not awake and focused enough during he day. It helped and in the process took away my tinnitus. As far as fish oil, I started taking that to help control my cholesterol. It did it's job and also took care of irritability and mild depression that plague me since the first surgery.

I have been taking Gingko for years and have no side effects. After your post, I researched them and they include headaches, nausea and gastrointestinal upset. Since it is a bioactive substance, I believe that it Gingko CAN have negative side effects. You be the judge of it and stop taking it if it gives you any. Good luck,

                           Eve
                   
Right side AN (6x3x3 cm) removed in 1988 by Drs. Benjamin & Cohen at NYU (16 hrs); nerves involved III - XII.
Regrowth at the brainstem 2.5 cm removed by Dr.Shahinian in 4 hrs at SBI (hopefully, this time forever); nerves involved IV - X with VIII missing. No facial or swallowing issues.