Michael Moore's Latest: "Sicko".

[Crazycat]

Has anyone seen Michael Moore's latest film, "Sicko"? It has to do with the heath care system in this country. He compares and contrasts it with the systems in England, Canada, France and even Cuba. Moore may be an expert propagandist and spin doctor, but he brings up some very real and legitimate concerns regarding health care in this country. I highly recommend watching this film.

Paul

[Captain Deb]

Haven't seen this'n yet, but I'm a huge Michael Moore fan. (tells ya where my politics lie.) It's now on my PPV TV thingy--we just haven't had a free evening. Will watch it soon and get back to ya. I'm with you on our healthcare system sucking. I pay $300 a month in health insurance--why am I paying almost $400 a month in prescription meds and not filling a much needed prescription right now cuz it's $545.00? You tell me.

Capt Deb

[yardtick]

As a Canadian our family watched it with great interest.  Our system does have its flaws, but I must say thank God I do not have to pay for CT scans, MRI's operations and Dr's visits.  It could financially ruin you. 

My co-worker's husband a man in his early 60's never sick a day in his life was diagnosed, operated on, home and started treatment for a very rare cancer all in a matter of 7 weeks.  That is very quick.  Yes we have wait times, but something urgent takes top priority and most Canadians do not have a problem with that.  In the emergency dept a heart attach or stoke patient should be treated before a broken arm or leg patient, with no questions asked. 

I think dental care and eye care should also be universal, but that's just my opinion. 

Anne Marie

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

Ok Paul and Deb,

(oh and Anne Marie too - just read your post)

As of 20 minutes ago I have now seen Michael Moore’s - Sicko.

Michael Moore has certainly created some fuel for discussion. There is no doubt, in my mind, particularly after reading posts on this forum of tragic financial and medical care stories that there does need to be a review of healthcare in the USA … but he does look at some other countries with rose colored glasses.

Canada healthcare for example is not “National Health� as more “Provincial Healthcare�. In his film he highlighted OHIP and Ontario exclusively – where there are many examples of good healthcare stories, great hospitals and highly qualified professionals. A story filmed in the Okanagan Valley of British Columbia (and more remote northern communities) would have been a very different perspective depicted (and perhaps more accurate and encompassing). The Okanagan is one of Canada’s banana belts where many baby boomers are retiring to (particularity from the oil booming province of Alberta as new retirees). The BC provincial healthcare infrastructure was not the least prepared for this... and is in a crises.

http://www.cbc.ca/health/story/2007/01/26/hospitals-emerg.html
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/north/story/2007/05/09/yk-carebeds.html
http://en.epochtimes.com/news/5-9-2/31897.html


Interesting Cheza (in Britain) and I (Canadian residing in the USA) had this dialogue thread back before her surgery.
http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?topic=5318.msg47893#msg47893

There is no perfect and absolute answer to this extremely complex problem. I know in viewing Bowling for Columbine I had many criticisms of his quoted facts- given that the Canadian “young offenders actâ€? keeps many of the juvenile weapons offenses (and stats)  hush hush- so I always view his films now with some skepticism. Nevertheless he brings up questions that do need to be asked and addressed

I need time to reflect on this film before I respond more (Moore )… not to mention I need to catch up in folding my own laundry (which I think is actually good physiotherapy- especially walking with the full laundry basket up stairs ...LOL  ...as I am still in some sort of post-op recovery… a balancing act …and try to put together Christmas for my family to which I wish there was more vacation time for.)

It is pretty obvious ole Michael Moore has ‘the hots' (LOL  ) for Hillary Clinton … and there is a definite political propaganda happening here … However I hope that there is some good dialogue, in this ANA forum about the film, – and direct issues can be addressed without political polarization interfering with some already great peaceful friendships- formed here through the discussion forum. Each individual’s view of this film, and the USA healthcare, will vary much-  depending on their own personal experience.

Mr. Moore has certainly got me thinking more (Moore?  ) . I may not agree with all parts of the film – but he has fueled a discussion that does need to take place again.

I need to reflect some more … lots of static …mmm now  where DID I put those dryer sheets… If it did not rain so much here I could just hang my laundry outside on the line… but this is a different climate where I transplanted to…

Food and Moore fuel for thought. Thanks for encouraging us to see the film- Paul. I watched the DVD in between folding loads of laundry … my head is spinning now LOL

Cheers,

4

[mindyandy]

I had just got done watching the Sicko movie. Very interesting. I wish I could live in France. I do belive the US should have have free health care (we pay in taxes). National health care service. I cannot belive that people were getting turned away for health care. 
Very sad.

[Mark]

I was going to just let this thread go without comment, but will risk offering a little different slant

First, there is no debate that the US healthcare system has some pretty severe issues to address but that discussion is a lot more complicated than Michael Moore orchestrates in "Sicko". The fact that it is broken made it a safe place for him to exploit in film  his shoddy and selective research less subject to scrutiny than in previous efforts such as "Columbine" and others. He is very adept at presenting "facts" in a very compelling way to what is typically in this country a passive audience. I actually enjoyed some of his early work until I found out just how fast and lose he is with facts and presenting all aspects of an issue in his work. Ken Burns, for example, is an outstanding documentary film maker who does impeccable research on his subjects and offers it to the audience for their conclusions. Michael Moore is not a documentary film maker, rather he is a very talented comedic propagandist who tackles a subject with an agenda in mind. If your tendency is to lean to the left politically, he will play nicely to your perceptions and presumed realities. The truth, however will be in a somewhat different place. Obviously, I am not a Michael Moore fan for those reasons. It is less about his ideology as it is dishonesty. I may disagree with someone's view on things but I will always respect someone "who walks their talk".  A book called "Do as I say, not as I do" might be of interest to anyone who wants to check that out.

Second, In looking at what is broke in Healthcare in the US today, one needs to include more than the insurance industry and big "pharma" in the discussion. Over and mis regulation by government ( what a surprise that is) on the provider side occurs because our law makers don't want to address the insurance industry AND the Lawyers ( tort reform) . The direct and indirect costs of these two entities accounts for nearly 50% of the healthcare dollars spent, but the lobby group dollars that pay for our lawmakers on both sides of the aisle insure change will be difficult here. Anyone who thinks the current crop of democratic presidential candidates will overhaul these issues is mistaken. The solutions will be through increasing revenues to provide full access, not resolving the underlying problems.

Finally, It is important to recognize that the other healthcare systems have elements that would be very unacceptable to an American culture. One of the reasons you can interview people in other countries and have them seem satisfied is simply because they have been conditioned to a certain level of access and treatment scheduling. It is their norm and they know nothing different. Most people here who today feel their access is not what they want would be extremely frustrated in these other systems. It is important to consider the difference in expectations from one culture to another.

So again, I'm no different than anyone else in recognizing that the US Healthcare system underachieves in many areas. However, my point is simply that the discussion is much more complex and involves some very foundational issues in our society that we have to be willing to change. It is not as simple or easy to point a finger as Moore presents in Sicko. So that is my semi political , off ANA topic rant  . It is not hard to find many reviews of the film that jump on his bandwagon, but I'll provide a link to what I consider to be a very thoughtful one.

http://www.reason.com/news/show/120998.html

Now back to your Saturday night ANA discussions 

mark



 

[Joef]

We are going down a dark road here....

I really DONT want to know were your politics lie -- and I wont discuss mine --- nothing can destroy a forum faster than going into politics....

please consider this thread locked and dont reply anymore...