Author Topic: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease  (Read 6540 times)

Ross

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Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« on: August 25, 2009, 09:32:00 pm »
I was diagnosed with my AN three years ago and was in a W&W state for two years before we took the MRI and saw that it had grown enough to finally say, "we have to do something about this."  I elected to have radiation...and had my treatments at Mass General Hospital in Boston.  All was well.  However, six months later, my hearing finally went.  It happened on a Friday...good news was that I had the weekend to start adjusting.  Little did I know that something else was looming.  The following Tuesday, I couldn't get out of bed.  I was reeling from vertigo.  I had a followup appointment the next day with my ENT and she let me know that my vestibular nerve was in trauma based on the radiation and that a condition known as Meniere's was induced from the radiation.  For the few 2 1/2 weeks, I was pretty debilitated.  I lost the vertigo, but a dizziness and low nausea continued.  I finally got some relief once my blood pressure got stablilized.  I'm on a low sodium diet and diuretic (typical treatments of Meniere's).  It's now almost six weeks since my hearing loss and the onset, but I'm still feel the dizzies.  It's been challenging.  The good news is that I have a very supportive family and work environment, AND, my spirits are good.  But I have to say that this has been one of the most challenging times in my life.  I'm 48, my life has changed so dramatically without warning, and it starts to get to you when you can't take walking down the street, without feeling dizzy, for granted.  So...I just keep keepin' on.  The doctor feels that with the change in diet and the diuretic regimen that the dizziness will ultimately go away and the brain wil regulate the balance appropriately.  It seems that with surgery, the nerve just gets taken out so the brain has no choice but to figure out that the balance needs to shift.  With nerve trauma, the brain is confused...no shift has been made yet.  Curious if anyone else has experience something similar.  I'm exploring an injection of Gentimicin as a possible next step, but not jumping into too quickly.   Looking forward to hearing from others.

My best - rjo
AN, 9 MM
Radiation Treatment, February 2009
Hearing loss in right ear, July 2009

Tumbleweed

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Re: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« Reply #1 on: August 26, 2009, 01:12:29 am »
Hi, rjo:

Sorry to hear about your balance problems. I know what it's like to have vertigo; certainly no picnic. I hope you feel better soon.

At the risk of unwarranted skepticism on my part due to having incomplete information, I'm going to go out on a limb and propose that you may not have Meniere's. I do not know of any cases of radiation treatment causing Meniere's disease and I suspect your ENT may have been "throwing darts in the dark."

I'm wondering if you had an "ecog" (electrococheography) test to diagnose Meniere's. This test is somewhat inconclusive yet the most relied upon for determining Meniere's. The ecog test determines if there is fluid in your inner ear, a condition known as hydrops. You cannot have Meniere's without having hydrops, although the reverse isn't necessarily true.

Unless hydrops has been established as fact in your case, it is pure conjecture to say you have Meniere's disease. Please don't get me wrong; I do not doubt that you have vertigo and all the other symptoms you've mentioned. It is unusual, but not unheard of, to develop vertigo after radiation treatments if you did not have vertigo before getting treated. But here you are, clearly suffering from vertigo. That I am not disputing. My point is that unless you've had an ecog test confirming Meniere's, you shouldn't worry about Meniere's too much. You may simply be suffering from swelling or internal inflammation of the treated tumor (a common occurrence after radiation treatments), which can cause balance problems but is almost always transitory.

You say your "hearing went." Did you lose all hearing on your AN side? If not, did you lose mostly low frequencies or mostly high frequencies? If you lost mostly high frequencies but low frequencies were largely preserved, then you do not have Meniere's disease, as Meniere's only affects low frequencies. Meniere's typically also presents as progressive hearing loss (often with subsequent partial rebound in hearing in between episodes) and not complete loss in one episode.

Please forgive my dubiousness if indeed you've had an ecog confirming hydrops and your hearing loss was centered on low frequencies. That would indeed point toward Meniere's. But if those two points don't ring true, then my hope is that I can give you some peace of mind and you won't automatically assume you have Meniere's, which is very difficult to treat (although it can be managed). My goal in replying to your post is to help you understand what's going on with your balance issues and reassure you that the cause may not be Meniere's but something much more transient in nature and less chronic of a condition. Also, if you don't have Meniere's, taking a diuretic may actually aggravate your balance issues, as it can dehydrate you. The dehydrating effects of alcohol, caffeine and chocolate, for example, are known to sometimes aggravate balance issues in people with ANs.

Hopefully I've armed you with some information that will help you understand what's causing your vertigo and help you to manage it the best way possible.

Best wishes,
TW
L. AN 18x12x9 mm @ diagnosis, 11/07
21x13x11 mm @ CK treatment 7/11/08 (Drs. Chang & Gibbs, Stanford)
21x15x13 mm in 12/08 (5 months post-CK), widespread necrosis, swelling
12x9x6 mm, Nov. 2017; shrank ~78% since treatment!
W&W on stable 6mm hypoglossal tumor found 12/08

ppearl214

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Re: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« Reply #2 on: August 26, 2009, 06:19:54 am »
At the risk of unwarranted skepticism on my part due to having incomplete information, I'm going to go out on a limb and propose that you may not have Meniere's. I do not know of any cases of radiation treatment causing Meniere's disease and I suspect your ENT may have been "throwing darts in the dark."

Hi rjo and welcome to the forums.  We are glad to have you here.

I have to agree with Tumbleweed on this one... I also have not heard of any kind of AN radio treatment bringing on Meniere's.  I have to ask which radiation you had at MGH (ie: Proton, FSR, Trilogy) as I know they offer these 3 different AN treatment options.  Is Dr. Loeffler your radio doc at MGH?  when exactly did you have your radio treatment (ie: how long ago)?

Many know that post-radio (any radio treatment), potential edema/swelling can occur with the AN.  Many may see the swelling occur from a few months to approx 1-1/2 yrs post radio (I am also one that experienced it down the road).  The doctors may prescribe an anti-inflammtory med (ie: steroids) to help keep the swelling in check.  If the AN swelled on the vestibular nerve, that may possibly be enhancing the vertigo.

I am not a doctor (by far) but am going to toss a few things your way.  Did you discuss this with the neuro-oncologist on your team? They would be the one to follow you, post-radio, to work with you on possible after affects of the treatment.  I know of low dose valium (short term) that may be prescribed to help conquer the Vertigo (they even did that for me a few months post treatment).  Vestibular exercises could also be prescribed (many here have done vestibular therapy to help with post-treatment -- surgical and radiation -- after affects).  Has anyone discussed these things with you?

I hope you feel well soon... and again, welcome you here.  Possibly talking to the team at MGH is the best course of action?

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

mk

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Re: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2009, 08:58:44 pm »
Hello rjo and welcome.

We are no doctors here, but I will tend to agree with TW and Phil. If you look at older posts it is not at all unusual to suffer sudden hearing loss and/or bouts of vertigo post radiation. These are most always due to some inflammation due to swelling. I suppose your ENT must have known your history. In that case, the first thing that she should have considered is swelling, and not Meniere's. Like Phyl, I would urge you to contact your radiation oncologist ASAP.
I had sudden hearing loss 6 months post-GK. I was prescribed prednisone and hearing came back to its original levels after two weeks. The sooner you act, the most likely to save some hearing.

Good luck
Marianna
GK on April 23rd 2008 for 2.9 cm AN at Toronto Western Hospital. Subsequent MRIs showed darkening initially, then growth. Retrosigmoid surgery on April 26th, 2011 with Drs. Akagami and Westerberg at Vancouver General Hospital. Graduallly lost hearing after GK and now SSD but no other issues.

Ross

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Re: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2009, 12:39:34 pm »
I didnt' realize that I had posts until I proactively checked...somehow I thought I'd get an email alert.

Thank you so much for the posts.  Based on your input, I have a call into Dr. Loeffler's office and am waiting to hear back from his assistant.  On the day that I couldn't get out of bed, Dr. Loeffler's office helped me with prescription of valium to relieve the vertigo, but they never said, "come in and let us check things out."  I let them know that I was going to see my otologist at Mass Eye and Ear the next day and they were good with that.  I've been on the diuretic for two months.  I haven't had any additional vertigo, just the strange dizzy feeling.  The otologist feels it will ultimate right itself, and also feels that the meds may be the reason that the vertigo hasn't come back.  But she never mentioned anything other than radiation induced Meniere's.  You've given me another avenue to explore...thanks for that.  Maybe there's something else going on that no one considered.  I will wait to hear from radiology and get their opinion on next steps.  Very frustrating trying to navigate.

I'll keep you posted.

My best - rjo
AN, 9 MM
Radiation Treatment, February 2009
Hearing loss in right ear, July 2009

sgerrard

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Re: Post Radiation Causing Radiation-Indused Meniere's Disease
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2009, 09:33:42 pm »
I didnt' realize that I had posts until I proactively checked...somehow I thought I'd get an email alert.

You can receive email alerts if you want to. For notifications of replies in a particular topic, click on the Notify button at the top or bottom of the topic.

There are also some settings under your profile for notification. After you log in, click the Profile button at the top, then click the link on the left for Notifications and Email.

Hope you find some answers on the vertigo.

Steve
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.