the new health bill?

[Brendalu]

While that is true, Steve, my AN was covered initially by one insurance company.  Midstream, about two weeks before my surgery, my husband's company changed insurance companies.  I was very nervous about not having coverage.  Fortunately, because it was continuous coverage, I was covered.  A few months after my over half million dollar claim hit another person in my husband's company was diagnosed with cancer.  When the policies came up for renewal (it was a one year policy) the costs almost doubled for each person in the company. Two people out of ninety-two used the coverage.
I went ten years with the same auto insurance, with no accidents, no tickets, no glass chips.  An illegal ran my car off the road and totaled my car.  The illegal had no driver's license, no registration, no inspection (required in Texas) and towing an overloaded, unlicensed trailed with a flat tire and they were speeding.  The illegal got a ticket for no driver's license, spent one night in jail, and another illegal drove the unlicensed truck away with the sheriff's blessing.  What happened to me with my spotless driving record?  The insurance company canceled me, refused to pay the damage (auto finance company is now fighting with them because we had GAP insurance).  The insurance company refused to pay the uninsured motorist coverage because according to my policy they can claim a terrorist act if the person involved in the accident was in this country illegally.
So in as much as that is the way insurance is supposed to work, it hasn't for me and for many others.

Brenda

[Pooter]

Marianna -  If you'll notice, I directed my comments directly to Anne Marie, who DID say "It cost me nothing".  I'm fully aware that nothing is ever free.  Our tax dollars go towards the building of roads, street signs, cops, military, DMV, post office, and even to study the migratory habits of the spanish fruit fly.  I agree that the difference is a philisophical one.  Many people believe that those that make the money should give over half of it to the government so that those that don't make enough can benefit from it, while others feel that they should be able to give their money out how THEY see fit.  Those that feel, like me, that I know better where to give my money than the almighty government as they have a historical track record of tragic mishandling of money (hence the US Government's almost 13 TRILLION dollar debt), gross inefficiencies (Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, etc...), and tremendous projected cost overruns (just about every Government-run program out there).  They always need more and more and more "for the good of everyone", but it's NOT good for everyone.  They're not good at what they've done so far, so why should I have ANY confidence that they'll be good at this either?  The philisophical difference is that some have confidence in the government and some do not.  Count me firmly in the camp that does not.

Steve - True.  The concept of spreading the risk over a group of people is the same.  Where we differ is that I don't think the government has any right being in the insurance business.  They're not good at the things that they do, so why would this be any different?  To be fair, those of us that had our AN treated in the US covered by insurance were paid by the group to which we belonged to at the time NOT by other employers who had no claims.  The group to which we belonged paid for it and often times suffered higher premiums because of that treatment claim.  One thing struck me as odd about your post... If the concept is the same with this new system, how is it any different than what we had before?  As I see it, premiums will continue to rise and care will ultimately be rationed by bureaucrats instead of premiums rising and care affected directly by insurance companies..  All we've done is shift who's going to cause the premium increases and who affects the care.  So, again, we've absolutely flushed over a trillion tax payer dollars over the next 10 years...

Steve, let's see how you feel over the next 4-6 years as your premiums continue to rise, your taxes continue to rise, and you're no better off with your healthcare than you are at this present time.  Again with the facts.  Sorry about that.

Brian

[yardtick]

Pooter,

I'd sooner pay taxes than the ridiculous rates you pay for your HMO.  If I were to add up my taxes and compare it to what you pay for your HMO I would still come out with more money in my pocket than in yours.  My family consist of 6, with 4 young men in college and university.  Thankfully they live at home and are able to commute to and from very decent institutions that have also been partially funded with tax paying dollars. 

What I said was no charge, not free.  There are no other co-pays or additional insurance cost.  I do not have to worry about going over a dollar amount that has been pre-set or if I am going to be dropped because of a pre-existing condition. 

Every member on this forum must realize that you have "The World" visiting here, for information, support, and guidance.  I realize that the majority of the users are from the USA, but that doesn't mean that the rest of us cannot have an opinions and there isn't some validity in our opinions.

Eloquence isn't one of my strengths especial when I'm in pain.  Lobbyist, back room deals, the economy and education is what really needs attention.

This is from a crazy Canadian who has no debt, has paid for half of her 4 son's education and has a decent retirement savings.  Oh yeah she has also been on disability for 2 yrs.  Maybe this crazy Canadian isn't so crazy eh? 

[Pooter]

Anne Marie,

Calm down.. Take a deep breath.  What you don't realize is that with the current system passed by our Congress and signed into Law by President Obama is that not only do we now how to pay premiums (that are likely to go up instead of down, btw), but now we ALSO have to pay higher taxes to pay for this new monstrous health care plan.  I'm quite confident that if we stacked your taxes versus my premiums and higher taxes that are specific for this health care system, you'd come out WAY ahead over what I will be paying.  I think that proves my point..  The current "solution" isn't a solution to reducing my health care costs.  In the end, I'll end up paying more for less.

Indidentally, since when did "no charge" not mean "free" ?  Either it costs something or it doesn't, right?  True that our current system has co-pays and additional costs, limits on the total coverage, and yes some people are dropped over pre-existing conditions (or are never able to get insurance because of that).  If you'll notice, I NEVER said that our current system wasn't without it's faults.  On the contrary, my claim is that it does need some tweaking but not a gigantic monstrous overhaul as was done with this new law.  I contend that it will cost me (and everyone else) more, will not bring costs down as was one of the intents, and likely will result in the rationing of medical care in an attempt to save money.

I NEVER said that someone outside the USA couldn't have opinions.  In fact, I welcome the opinions of others outside the USA to get a better perspective.  I NEVER EVER said that your opinions weren't valid or valued ones.  Please don't attribute statements to me which I have not said nor condone.

Nor have I ever called you a crazy Canadian.  I'm happy that you're in the situation that you are in.  Having to put 4 boys through school, no debt, build up a decent retirement savings all while staying at home and being on disability for 2 years is quite the feat.  I envy your position as do many other Americans I'm sure.  I still fail to realize how the current healthcare law is going to open the doors necessary for us all to realize that dream.

You know.. You're absolutely right.  Lobbyist (both sides), back room deals (both sides), the economy and education are some of the things that should be fixed.  Let us not forget about the jobless rate as that needs some attention also.  And, also the out of control spending by our "leaders" should be looked at also.  All of that begs the question; why make such a massive overhaul of the healthcare system in such a way that will end up costing us more in the long run and create a massive amount of beauacracy at a time when there are other more pressing problems?

Brian

[ppearl214]

My migraine has intensifed 10-fold! Let's remain civil folks. Important conversation... definately, but name calling/flaming/etc. will not be tolerated.

I will remind you all that my diet rice cakes are here with me...... and that this thread is continued to be watched carefully.  Agree to disagree... BUT with respect. Anything less than that will not be tolerated.

thanks!
Phyl

[mk]

This issue of the American health care system is extremely complex and it is best left to the US citizens to debate it and decide what is suitable for them.

I personally wasn't even following this thread, much less participating, because frankly it is none of my business anyway. What caught my eye (and I think Anne Marie's too), is the misrepresentation of any foreign/different system as "scary". So my answer was intended to set that record straight.

I *really* think that it is time to switch to our regular, amicable AN programming.

Marianna

[Pooter]

Marianna,

I don't disagree that our system (both old and new), are complex.  But, I do disagree that it's only for us to debate.  How else will we learn what works and what doesn't in other countries (without the media / government spin) if not talking to people who actually use that system?

I don't think Greg meant to imply that the Candian health care system was "scary", just that we should be talking to people from other countries who do have this type of system (e.g. Canadians) to hear their experiences.  He then followed up that very poignant point by interjecting his own opinion that it sounds "scary" (presumably the things that he had seen/read/been told thus far about other systems).  At least, that's how I took it.  Greg can vouch for himself on that, however.  I think it's stories like this that Greg was finding "scary":  http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2007/09/socialized_medicine_is_broken.html.

Contrary to popular belief, I think this discussion has remained relatively amicable.  The discussion hasn't devolved into name calling, propoganda throwing, or flaming.  Sure, it's a heated discussion at times, but that's to be expected while discussing a topic like this.  I think it's important that we Americans hear real stories from people who know about the systems they have in place in their own country.  So, heated, yes...  Amicable, for the most part yes.  Needed, most definitely in my opinion.

Brian

[ppearl214]

As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me!

Phyl

[Lizard]

As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me!

Phyl

You go Phyl! And take care of that noggin'
Liz

[Kaybo]

All I have to say after spending 2 hours waiting in the Social Security office today is "LORD HELP US ALL!"  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that "Z" "B" "C" and "T" all sound exactly the same over a loud speaker...that is the letters that preceded numbers to call the next person waiting (everyone got a printout when we signed it) - HELLO?  Last time I checked, there were 26 letters in the alphabet to choose from...could they not have used some that had different sounds?  Even the people that had all their hearing were struggling!!

K   

[Pooter]

Kay, thanks for proving my point about the inefficiencies and inequities of government-run systems.  I'm fairly confident that if that were a privately run operation that either A) they'd be out of business because very few people would subject themselves to that kind of non-sense, or B) it would be changed to make it more effective.  As you said, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure a lot of these things out, but government has NO incentive to actually do it right... just to do it.

Whoever said that the current economic mess was caused only by private companies should look a little closer into Fannie and Freddie as well as the Community Reinvestment Act.  Those two things had a LARGE thing to do with current economic woes and are classic examples of how government trying to do anything massive will jack things up three ways to Sunday in my opinion.. 

Wee!  Fun day! 

Brian

[ppearl214]

As one who is on day 4 of a massive migraine (seeing the doc tomorrow)... losing my job in 2 wks, going on COBRA that I am not eligible for the COBRA subsidy, cramming all of my doc appts in the next month... and have been through the ER in the UK, where, even as a non-UK resident, I didn't have a hospital bill (my husband's employment tax GBP paid for my ER visit)...... well, I like the word "amicable". works for me!

Phyl

You go Phyl! And take care of that noggin'
Liz

workin' on it Liz... trust me... workin' on it!

xo
Phyl

[grega]

Phyl, sending along a virtual cool washrag for your forehead .... perhaps a little relief.  Perhaps not..... but please be relieved to know that this thread has, in my opinion, been one of the most intelligent, civil, respectful that I've had the pleasure of reading in my short time here.  Anything less and I would not have come back to it.

Brian, thanks for expounding on what I wrote back near the top of page 20 .... what you say is correct.  Living just outside DC, not a day .... no, not an hour .... goes by without most news sources covering everything about the goings on of this government.  Pick any government topic since before the current administration and congress took power .... controversial or not .... it's covered to the nth degree, ad nauseum.  On every newscast on the hour and half-hour, we hear the president and the congressional leaders.  We hear the pros and cons of every suggestion or proposal put forth, by Obama, congressional leaders, pundents, reporters, etc.  The pros on health care reform include why this bill just has to be passed right now, whereas the cons include stories about what this law will lead to, comparing it to systems in other parts of the world.  These latter discussions are general in nature, and do not mention specific people in Canada or the UK or elsewhere who has greatly benefited from their particular health care system.  I'm very glad that those people have benefitted!

Also in that post back on page 20, I voiced my objection to the process by which this health care bill, as well as other bills, past and proposed, are being pushed thru.  This, and the fact that congressional representatives refuse to listen to their constituents, is what many don't like.

I wish all a good night!

[Larry]

Hi guys,

Phyl, you are not allowed to have those head pains so hopefully it goes quickly.

As for health systems, I don't think anyone has come up with the answer yet. Down under - we have a public system (taxpayer funded) and you can take out private insurance. For the public - coz of the high cost of running hospitals, the service is ordinary. To have an AN op you have a two year wait(unless you are close to death). Elective surgery - forget it - maybe 3-5 years. There is a shortage of beds and it just takes so long to get anything done. having said that, when i had pneumonia a few years back, and popped in to the hospital, the service was fantastic. thats coz i had a breathing problem. Essentially, I have learned that for a public health system to work, it requires bucket loads of cash which results in additional tax. Then the problem of abuse occurs where people will utilise the resources needlessly and then the merry-go-round starts.

Our private insurance is affordable and is not corporate based like in the U.S. I am on a family top cover and that costs me $350 per month. Mind you, we have large out of pocket expenses for surgeons etc. having the private insurance gives you choice of surgeon and hospital plus immediate access to surgery.

My assesment of the U.S system is that it the single biggest issue you have is the legal system. Surgeon and facility costs are high due to malpractice insurance premiums being so high. I understand that anaethatists (excuse spelling) premiums are around $1m per year. How on earth can you have an affordable health system with that scenario. My mother was recently operated on in the U.S and ok, a non u.s citizen but the hospital wouldn't let her in without a $3,000 payment up front. The MRI cost her $6,000 (free or max $200 in Oz) her op and stay for 5 nights cost over $100,000. Unbelievably absurd. Surgeon fees of $70,000 for 5 hours work is rather high don't you think?

Get rid of the ability to sue hospitals or medicos which will reduce fees, put a cap on fees for surgeons and general doctor visits and you'll have an affordable health system. Will never happen though.

Sorry for the rant and rave but just thought I'd paint a different picture for you.

cheers


laz

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

losing my job in 2 wks,

 

Big Gianormous HUG ! Pearly Whites- you do NOT deserve this… nor any other citizen who is disabled  by illness… acoustic neuroma or otherwise.

Huggles.

DHM