Author Topic: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n  (Read 10932 times)

Milenkas

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just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« on: October 21, 2011, 08:49:10 am »
After 2 years of fullness, ringing, buzzing, tapping, etc. in my right ear, and on and off dizziness, ent ordered an MRI and found a 5mm accoustic neuroma.  The noises in my ear are not as bad, but dizziness has gotten much worse....  I called the dr at beginning of week and she sent me to a vestibular therapist.  She said if it doesn't help, have to consider surgery...middle fossa approach.  Has anyone had this experience with dizziness with such a small tumor?  Was surgery helpful?  Was therapy helpful?  Should I just watch and wait, or just have it removed?
Diagnosed 8/2011, 5mm a/n.

CHD63

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #1 on: October 21, 2011, 10:33:57 am »
Hi Milenkas and welcome to this forum .....

If you have read other posts on here, you know that every AN patient is unique as to symptoms related to size of tumor.  Much depends upon the exact location and configuration of the tumor.  Since ANs start with the growth of Schwann cells on the vestibular nerve, many of us experience balance or disorientation or dizziness symptoms fairly soon.

At 5 mm, you should have all three options open to you ..... wait and watch, radiotherapy, or surgery.  Much depends upon how disabling (or rapidly increasing) your symptoms are and your own comfort level.

If you have not already done so, you may want to send for the free information from ANA-USA.  See:  http://www.anausa.org/index.php/contact-us
These materials contain very valuable information as you research your options and make your decision.

Many thoughts.  Clarice
Right MVD for trigeminal neuralgia, 1994, Pittsburgh, PA
Left retrosigmoid 2.6 cm AN removal, February, 2008, Duke U
Tumor regrew to 1.3 cm in February, 2011
Translab AN removal, May, 2011 at HEI, Friedman & Schwartz
Oticon Ponto Pro abutment implant at same time; processor added August, 2011

james e

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #2 on: October 21, 2011, 11:56:59 am »
I was vomiting all the time from the wonkyness. My doc wrote a script for Zofran 4mg and it helped me through the really bad times. Get the generic. Zofran is about $60.00 for each tablet.

I went through at least two years of mild dizzy spells, a family doctor, ENT,  a neurologist, and finally an internal medicine doc finally ordered an MRI. My hearing was bad enough that I had translab surgery and gave up my right ear to save my face. It all worked out in my favor.

Sounds like your hearing is still pretty good if he is recommending middle fossa.  That is good news. I decided to get surgery right after my AN was found. But that was right after I decided to get radiation, and then changed my mind...probably changed it 2 or 3 times...BIG time decision. Take your time deciding what you are going to do. Make a list of your options, and write down the good and bad of each, read this forum front to back, ask lots of questions. You will find out more here than your doc will be willing to share. All of here have been through what you just starting to go through, and we will share our knowledge and friendship.

James

JAndrews

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #3 on: October 23, 2011, 05:20:46 pm »
Yes, I know a woman who had the same size tumor. Her symptoms were so bad she went ahead and did surgery. All was removed, she is fine. She had Dr. Friedman and Schwartz at House in LA. Vestibular therapy is not going to work when there is a tumor sitting on the nerve. 5mm is very small, if its not much of a bother you could definitely wait a while.
2.5cm x2.0cm cerebellapontine angle meningioma. 100% removal 2/2009. House Ear Institute. Dr Brackmann and Dr. Schwartz. SSD right ear. No balance problems except when really tired, no headaches. Transear hearing aide made no difference, tried it for 4 months.

Tumbleweed

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #4 on: October 24, 2011, 08:12:05 pm »
I'll throw in my two (or three) cents...

Vestibular therapy won't cure your dizziness, but it certainly should help. The more balance exercises you do, the quicker your brain will adapt to and learn to ignore the aberrant balance signals coming from the degraded balance nerve on your AN side. That is, the more you walk and do other exercises that challenge your balance, the more your brain will learn to rely on your sight and the propioceptors in your feet to determine whether you are properly balanced or not.

It is not unusual for a small tumor to be causing such intense balance problems. Many AN sufferers go through the worst of their balance-related symptoms when the tumor is still in its early stage.

You should be in no rush to get your AN treated, as yours is very tiny. You should take the time to fully investigate all of your options -- watch and wait, radiosurgery (GammaKnife), radiotherapy (CyberKnife or FSR/fractionated stereotactic radiation) and microsurgery (surgical resection). Most importantly for now, watch and wait is probably advised until you know whether or not the darn thing is continuing to grow. The only way to know that is to get a followup MRI -- typically six months after the first MRI -- to see if the AN has gotten any bigger. Some ANs don't grow at all over the course of 20 years, in which case (assuming your symptoms stay stable and don't worsen) you may reasonably decide to forego treatment completely. All forms of treatment involve considerable risk, so you shouldn't rush into getting treated, especially with a very small tumor such as yours.

How long can you wait? ANs grow at an average rate of about 2 mm per year, although some don't grow at all (this is rare) and others grow at a much faster clip (this is not common). If your tumor were to grow at the average rate and assuming your AN is currently located inside your internal auditory canal (your doctor probably would've called it a cerebollopontine angle tumor, or CPA tumor for short, if it were growing wholly outside your internal auditory canal), here are the critical timelines to be aware of:
1. You probably have around seven years before it would begin to press on your brain stem; that would make treatment more urgent, but not unmanageable by any means.
2. You would probably have around twelve years before the tumor would be so large (over 3 cm in size) that radiation would be ruled out as a primary treatment. You would then be "stuck" with only one choice: microsurgery (which might be your preferred treatment nonetheless, but it's good to have other options open to you).

So you can see, you probably have years to make a decision and plenty of time to research your options. A sudden growth spurt in the tumor or an increase in your symptoms, however, might compel you to seek treatment sooner rather than later. But even so, there is no urgent need to rush into treatment.

It's important to realize that no form of treatment is going to fully restore your balance and hearing; more likely, it will only prevent further deterioration. And it's possible that microsurgery or radiation would damage your balance and/or hearing further. So again, you should not rush into a decision immediately, especially before you've weighed all your options thoroughly and have determined whether your AN continues to grow.

So step back and breathe. Then comb this forum for information and emotional support. Do your research. The decision you make will determine your quality of life going forward, so take your time and make sure you keep an open mind to all of your options.

Most of all, know that thousands of people have gone before you and have come out of this okay. You too will be okay.

Best wishes,
TW
L. AN 18x12x9 mm @ diagnosis, 11/07
21x13x11 mm @ CK treatment 7/11/08 (Drs. Chang & Gibbs, Stanford)
21x15x13 mm in 12/08 (5 months post-CK), widespread necrosis, swelling
12x9x6 mm, Nov. 2017; shrank ~78% since treatment!
W&W on stable 6mm hypoglossal tumor found 12/08

Tumbleweed

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #5 on: October 24, 2011, 08:15:41 pm »

 (your doctor probably would've called it a cerebollopontine angle tumor, or CPA tumor for short, if it were growing wholly outside your internal auditory canal),

"cerebellopontine" is the correct spelling, in case you search for more info on this. Sorry, my bad.

TW
L. AN 18x12x9 mm @ diagnosis, 11/07
21x13x11 mm @ CK treatment 7/11/08 (Drs. Chang & Gibbs, Stanford)
21x15x13 mm in 12/08 (5 months post-CK), widespread necrosis, swelling
12x9x6 mm, Nov. 2017; shrank ~78% since treatment!
W&W on stable 6mm hypoglossal tumor found 12/08

Milenkas

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #6 on: October 25, 2011, 09:36:36 am »
thank you for the information.  It helps a lot.  When the symptoms started a couple years ago, the main problem was the ringing, buzzing and tapping....and occasional dizziness.  Now the "noise" in the ear is almost unnoticable and I'm dizzy (A LOT).....and I feel like I'm in a fog most of the time. I am doing therapy and hopefully it helps.  I believe the tumor is still in the canal itself.  I don't understand why the symptoms have changed so drastically.  They used to "come and go" but now the dizziness is not "going".... :o  I am concerned that if I wait, my "balance nerves" we'll just be ruined more and then when I finally do surgery, the dizziness will be there forever because of the nerve damage.....
Diagnosed 8/2011, 5mm a/n.

Chances3

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2011, 01:02:49 pm »
Hi Milenkas,

I was diagnosed with Meniere's disease back in the 90's.  I have a wonderful ring in my head.  In the beginning of 2010 I started to have vertigo attacks.  They were full spins, if you can picture the whole world spinning.  The attacks became very frequent every 5-8 days, very debilitating to the point my face would turn green and I would want to vomit.  By the summer the MRI showed I had a small AN, not as small as yours.  Last fall I had a middle fossa operation.  I went through a long recovery, but the vertigo attacks stopped this past summer.  I have lost some hearing, but the ear works, my facial muscles are all working very well.  The ring still exists, but that began before the tumor.  Many of the senior members will give you some sound advice, but ultimately the decisions are for you to make.  For me, the surgery was urgent, I had no quality of life with full spins on a regular basis.  With a small tumor, it affords you some time, I suggest you learn as much as you can before making any decisions.  This forum is fantastic, and I hope other members weight in with their advice, and suggestions.  Stay in touch.

God Bless.

Milenkas

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #8 on: November 02, 2011, 08:12:18 am »
Just another question......the last 3 weeks my dizziness has steadily increased and some episodes are more intense.  Also, right before a bad spell of dizziness, my head starts hurting--like a pulling feeling inside my head, then the dizziness starts.  The dizziness lasts about 2 minutes and it feels like I'm on an amusement park ride.  (but not fun)......In Sept, MRI showed the an to be 5mm.  I am going for vestibular therapy and doing it at home, but  dizziness is not letting up.....any insight or advice would be appreciated..... ::)
Diagnosed 8/2011, 5mm a/n.

leapyrtwins

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #9 on: November 02, 2011, 01:10:57 pm »
Milenkas -

it's a great idea to watch and wait with a small tumor like yours; but when symptoms increase and get to the point where they are having a big effect on your daily life it's probably time to seek treatment.

Have you consulted with a doctor about doing radiation?  or just about surgery?

With a tumor this small, depending on the location, radiation might be a good option for you.

It's a very personal choice, but in my opinion something you should definitely look into.  You want to know all of your options.

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

Milenkas

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #10 on: November 06, 2011, 08:54:53 pm »
thanks for you input. Dr. said if symptoms get worse would recommend middle fossa approach.  She feels I am too young for radiation since they don't know the long term (over 20 years) effect of it.  I have to go see her next month.  The dizziness has gotten worse and I feel "out of it" a lot.  I am doing vestibular therapy and hoping it might help.  thanks for your concern...
Diagnosed 8/2011, 5mm a/n.

Tumbleweed

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #11 on: November 08, 2011, 05:38:31 pm »
Hi, Milenkas:

Excuse me, but your doctor is not well-informed regarding radiation and is relying on outdated opinions/reports. (This is common with doctors who do not practice radiation treatments.) GammaKnife radiation has been practiced in the U.S. for close to 45 years. If your doctor doesn't know "the long term (over 20 years) effect of it," they obviously have had blinders on about the 40+-year history of safe and successful GammaKnife treatments because it is very well-known at this point. CyberKnife is very similar to GammaKnife but has not been in use in the U.S. for nearly as long. So if you're concerned about the risk of radiation treatment, look into GammaKnife, which has a decades-long proven track record of safety.

Please do yourself a favor and consult more than just neurosurgeons, most of whom are biased against radiation and/or ignorant about the current data supporting its safe and effective application. To be sure, radiation practitioners are also often biased against microsurgery, as they see it as unsafe, with many more potentially serious complications than radiation. My point is that you owe it to yourself to get the (biased) opinions from both sides (surgery and radiation). Then investigate -- through this forum and other sources -- for yourself the pros and cons of both types of treatments. You cannot implicitly trust only one doctor's opinion. You do so at your own peril.

Strong words, I know. I don't wish to offend. But I've seen too many other patients on this forum make knee-jerk decisions based on the ill-informed advice of one doctor and come to sorely regret terrible outcomes. Do your due diligence. If that still leads you to surgery, then that's your best choice. But make it your choice, not your doctor's.

Sincerely,
TW
« Last Edit: November 08, 2011, 05:40:20 pm by Tumbleweed »
L. AN 18x12x9 mm @ diagnosis, 11/07
21x13x11 mm @ CK treatment 7/11/08 (Drs. Chang & Gibbs, Stanford)
21x15x13 mm in 12/08 (5 months post-CK), widespread necrosis, swelling
12x9x6 mm, Nov. 2017; shrank ~78% since treatment!
W&W on stable 6mm hypoglossal tumor found 12/08

Milenkas

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2011, 09:49:22 am »
thank you for your concern.  I will definitely check into this further!
Diagnosed 8/2011, 5mm a/n.

leapyrtwins

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2011, 05:12:14 pm »
Tumbleweed is 100% correct.  Not to diss your doc, but she isn't up to speed with treating ANs with radiation.

Get a second opinion from someone who does radiation on ANs.

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

HeidiC

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Re: just diagnosed with 5mm a/n
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2011, 07:09:33 pm »
I am going to hae to respectfully disagree with Tumbleweed and Jan.  While radiation may have been used for over 40 years, like any new technology, it wasn't used much at first.  It took time for it to start being widely used.  I do feel it is a good choice if a person decides its right for them.  But I also agree with Milenkas's Dr., and my Dr. who said the same, that we don't have a long enough record of using to see what the long term effects would be for a young person such as myself at 34 years old...especially if I am lucky enough to live to 90 or 100 like many in my family history have done.

Its very much a personal choice, and a tough choice.  Just take in all the info, do your research, and you will be able to decide whats best for you!

~Heidi
Diagnosed 6-24-11 left side AN 3mm x 3mm
33 years old at time of diagnosis
Mid Fossia surgery 10-06-2011
with Drs Adunka and Ewend at UNC.