Author Topic: Newest MRI pic .....  (Read 3697 times)

Denisex2boys

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
Newest MRI pic .....
« on: January 31, 2008, 02:08:53 pm »
I can't tell if there is growth or not ..... I guess I will find our when I finally go for my appointment next week with Dr.'s Lownie and Parnes .....  all I know is the congested, full feeling is coming and going more frequently.  Hearing is still 'useless' .... as far as I am concerned - I can 'hear' directional hearing but not really understand anything going into the ear.  Headaches are frequent - most every day - but those could also be stress related ..... tingling comes and goes as it did before ..... anyway wish me luck next Friday! ..... I want the buggar out - but am so terrified of post-surgery recovery - I also don't want anything done when my 8 and 4 year old boys are out for the summer - I want their lives to be as 'normal' as possible during this process and still have school and the daycare to go to every day.

I know it was first suggested by the Dr.'s to try to preserve the hearing - but I have to be honest - I do not find it that useful and is the trans. approach not the most direct route?

Anyhoo - here 'she' is .............  I must say though - - with the contrast my 'radioactive' head really glows - it was initially diagnosed without contrast .....

- Oct. 16/08 - 12 hour 'blob-ectomy' at LHSC in London, ON - Dr. Lownie and Parnes
- Some internal facial numbness (cheek, tongue, eye), SSD, headaches (getting better), dry eye, some balance issues..... but othwise AWESOME!

Denisex2boys

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2008, 02:52:31 pm »
what does darkened middle mean?  I was scrolling the cd and literally stopped as I 'hit' what I thought was the AN - let me try to post another pic ..... since I have no idea how to read these ..........  you have me all excited now :)

.... see...... am I looking at the 'glow thing' or the other side ...... ????





- Oct. 16/08 - 12 hour 'blob-ectomy' at LHSC in London, ON - Dr. Lownie and Parnes
- Some internal facial numbness (cheek, tongue, eye), SSD, headaches (getting better), dry eye, some balance issues..... but othwise AWESOME!

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7451
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2008, 03:01:36 pm »
Denise,

Have you had treatment on this yet? Or in Wait/Watch mode?

(deleted my other posts until this question answered.... don't want to mislead in case I am wrong)
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 03:04:34 pm by ppearl214 »
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Denisex2boys

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 181
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2008, 03:21:38 pm »
Oh you didn't have to delete your previous post - LOL!

No, no treatment as yet .... this was just diagnosed on July 31st of this year - had very sudden hearing loss a year ago December.

I have been to London Health Sciences Center here in Ontario and met with Dr. Parnes - he pretty much told me I should seriously consider surgery since I am having the symptoms I mentioned before.  I am terrified about the whole facial thing though and being that my hearing is pretty much depleted on the AN side - is it worth even 'trying' to preserve when there are no guarantees?

He told me that if I want he could refer me for radiation (Toronto) - but that at my age (since no one knows for sure) the incidence of a tumor turning 'bad' in the future that he would not recommend that for me - but that if I chose - he would refer me - - I just want it gone .... I do not want to have to worry about it becoming 'sticky' and cumbersome to get out should it have to come out anyway or turning 'nasty' in my later years.

I am a total newbie regarding all of this and my hubby warned me about looking at my scan - that I would not know what to look for - I think he's right ;)

I meet again with Dr. Parnes and Dr. Lownie (Neurosurgeon) on the 8th of Feb. .... and I guess they will once again go over my options and let me know if there is indeed growth or not - I just picked up my MRI on cd today - and these were a few of the images.

I have read a ton of material but it is all so overwhelming ...... I guess if I weren't so symptomatic then I could maybe choose to wait and watch - - but that does not seem to be the case ......
« Last Edit: January 31, 2008, 03:27:58 pm by Denisex2boys »
- Oct. 16/08 - 12 hour 'blob-ectomy' at LHSC in London, ON - Dr. Lownie and Parnes
- Some internal facial numbness (cheek, tongue, eye), SSD, headaches (getting better), dry eye, some balance issues..... but othwise AWESOME!

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7451
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2008, 03:29:33 pm »
Ah, got it! Thanks for the synopsis, so I have to take back what I deleted... sorry for any confusion I may have caused.

Now, regarding GK and potential for "tumor turning bad" and age.... oy.  ::)  Well, if I walk across the street and the pavement does me in as well... well, that, for me, is a chance I'm willing to take.  there is an extremely.. and I mean EXTREMELY low chance of tumors going cancerous on us post-radiation... yes, it's rare and can occur, but, for me, I refuse to be an ostrich with my head in the sand and run every time I hear that... well, to me, life is then not worth living.  For me, I was willing to take that chance.. and be radiated.. and if it turns.. then it is to be.. and if it doesn't... all the better.

Denise, you will know in your heart and gut what will be best for your, your situation, your family, your soul.  You are doing everything right in researching all you can... I would suggest doing further research about the merits of all AN treatment protocols available... you can do a "Search" option here about radiation turning cancerous... you can do further searches about microsurgeries as well. Your AN is most certainly (from what I can tell) of size (medium) for all forms of AN treatment protocols... you will know what is best for you... and know that regardless of what you decide... we cheer you on... never forget that.  Your fears are real and most certainly to be expected... but don't let your fears overwhelm what will be best for you.... ya know what I mean?

Hang in there!  Let's us know how the appt goes...
Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Joef

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1345
  • ** I rather be Kayak Fishing **
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2008, 05:50:02 pm »
Yep .. trans-Lab is the most direct --- right though the ear... but its like humpty dumpty - they can't put back together again  ;D  so they do trans-lab when the hearing is shot anyways...

whats gets me .. the # of cases if it "turning" can be counted on your hands.. but since they did not do a surgery or a biopsy.. how do you know it did not turn.. but was bad from the start !!  :'(

ps... you forgot to black out the DOB ..  ;D  I'm the same age...  :(
4 cm AN/w BAHA Surgery @House Ear Clinic 08/09/05
Dr. Brackmann, Dr. Hitselberger, Dr. Stefan and Dr. Joni Doherty
1.7 Gram Gold Eye weight surgery on 6/8/07 Milford,CT Hospital

sgerrard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #6 on: February 01, 2008, 01:14:24 am »
I'm no expert, so take this with a grain of salt, but if I am not mistaken, you only got your AN in the last picture of the three. Your AN is on your left side (according to your description), and left in an MRI is on the right side of the picture.   ???

 I know that sounds odd, but you are basically looking at a picture taken of you while you are looking at the camera. If you met me face to face, my left side would be on your right side, and vice versa. The other thing about MRI's is that in addition to the AN, all sorts of little spots will light up with contrast, so you can't just look for bright blobs. It also has to be in the right place, etc. I think it is about 1.5 cm again, by the scale on the right - but wait and see what the doctor says.  ;)

I'm a CK'er, so I know I what I would do, but the important thing is to gather good information on the treatment options and providers. Once you make an informed decision, you will probably find that a lot of the stress goes away.

Best wishes,

Steve
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

Charlotte Lady

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 76
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #7 on: February 01, 2008, 10:39:03 am »
Steve is right...I think.  The films have a letter "R" on them to indicate right side.  I don't know what the RHA means though. 

Do what YOU feel comfortable with.  Things to ask your surgeon: What percentage of YOUR patients come out with facial paralysis?  How many do you do a year?  may I speak to one of your patients who've had this?

Ask those questions of the CK doctor too.  There are risk factors in CK too.   I think I remember the tumor might be somewhat more likely to regrow requiring another CK or perhaps surgery at that time.  But then again it probably won't.

What my surgeon told me : He does about 12-20 a year (due to their rareity) but that they seem to come in clusters.  I was his sixth case in two months.  With a tumor my size: about 30% had some degree of facial paralysis.  75% lost all the hearing in that ear.  Since I was pretty deaf already, that wasn't much of a factor in my decision. 

How it turned out for me: I went for the surgery.  I have a miniscule amount of paralysis which isn't noticeable unless I make certain (and unusual) grimaces.  Only my surgeon, my significant other and I can see it.  I am deaf in my right ear and a bit unsteady on my feet. 

Like Steve, I made my decision based on my own needs and concerns.  You have to make up your own mind. Not your husband.  Not your family.  Not your doctor.   

Donna
1.5 cm AN removed 9/25/07.

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7451
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #8 on: February 01, 2008, 11:09:32 am »

Ask those questions of the CK doctor too.  There are risk factors in CK too.   I think I remember the tumor might be somewhat more likely to regrow requiring another CK or perhaps surgery at that time.  But then again it probably won't.



Hi Donna,

I am not sure who quoted you this... as we have learned there are biases noted from many a microsurgeon re: radiation and from radiation drs to microsurgery.  "...somewhat more likely to regrow..." is typically not the case and hoping whoever told you that will read up more regarding CK or all forms of AN radio-treatments as it is now being considered radio-treatments for smaller AN's as initial potential standards in choices of treatment before invasive surgery, should the 2 be an option.


Thrilled you are doing well... have a fab weekend!
Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

4cm in Pacific Northwest

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1324
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #9 on: February 01, 2008, 11:59:30 am »
Denise,

Hugs to you my fellow Canadian. I know this whole realization of having an AN tumor is freaky – and I would be a bit worried if you weren’t a little stressed out.

Who the author of the Neurotology textbook is will depend on whether the translab has a better view or not. I went though this very issue when trying to pick the Retrosigmoid over the translab. It was an ongoing pendulum as I gathered information and talked to expert surgeons and experienced patients.

Because we were not 100% certain I had an AN tumor (or something else like a meningioma) and I still had great hearing we chose the Retrosigmoid. At 4cm I did not have the radiation option due to the already compressed brainstem (A tumor will swell from radiation before it dies and shrivels)

When I woke up SSD, learning the tumor was in fact an AN and I had full one side facial palsy I did lay there thinking,

 Ã¢â‚¬Å“uh oh maybe I should have had the translab??!!â€?


The surgeons kept telling me that it would not have made much of a difference and many translab patients can get facial palsy too (and there are some on thi svery forum who experienced this- so it is well documented). I did not know what to believe 5 months ago.  I was not sure I believed them when they said that my facial palsy would resolve as they explained they left residual tumor along near the tumor encased facial nerve. They explained my facial nerve was not damaged but more traumatized (and this can happen with translab too.)

Here it is 5 months later and I HAVE regained 50% + movement back in my face. 99% of the tumor was removed.

So they have proved themselves to be right - after all. (Up until now I have been hesitant to comment on whether I made a good choice or not.)

The concern with radiating tumors is that this can change the nature of the tumor and often making it more adherent to the brain- if it needs to be surgically removed later-on . Radiation WILL change the nature and the consistency of the tumor. (Hopefully change it enough to kill the thing -but not always.) This has been well documented. However there have been many successful radiation stories too (Lorenzo comes to mind)- but often they do feel pretty darn awful after the treatment as everything inside the head is swollen and irritated (much like us surgery folks experienced also.) There are other issues with radiation as it can affect areas other than just the tumor location. An experienced radiation surgeon (GK etc) with an excellent record of precision -is key as… with micro surgery.

Even if the tumor does come out chances are your tinnitus and full feeling will remain. However if you have the tumor surgically removed you will have a pathology/cytology report of the dissection. If it stays there with radiation treatment you will never kwno the exact make-up of those tumor cells. If your hearing is sacrificed then you WILL loose your directional sound. This is a major adjustment as I cannot tell where sounds are coming from. Cochlear or BAHA implants will not correct loss of directional sound. Keep in mind some Retrosigmoid patents with smaller tumors, than mine, have maintained some directional hearing (NOT translab though- no a chance at all!)

EG.
Yesterday I could not, for the life of me, find my cell phone. I did my old trick of phoning it with my house phone. I could hear it ringing but it took me over 10 minutes of calling it to locate that it was ringing from a coat pocket hanging on a hook. (Thanks to my lab retriever for helping me out)

I am going to give this more time- as I know that the body heals and a ‘brain can retrain’ to adjustments… then I will look at hearing aids for SSD.

Ultimately Denise- the decision will be yours- and yours to live with.

You do have an AN tumor. Soon you will find out if there is any recent growth or not.  Wait until then before you worry too much. Once you have more information then decide if you want to act – or continue to wait and watch.

I was not prone to headaches prior to Retrosigmoid surgery and I do not have headaches now – after my surgery. (Headaches have been issues with Retrosigmoid patients – for me it has NOT been). The only drug I am on now is caffeine from caramel lattes.


Soon Dr Agrawal will be up there with Dr. Parnes – once he has finished his fellowship at Stanford University.
http://med.stanford.edu/ohns/faculty/ (scroll down to see his photo)
He has just trained with one of the most objective surgeons- in the world. Dr. Agrawal returns to Canada sometime in June. Maybe ask him for his opinion. I sincerely believe he will give you an objective one. Don’t be fooled by his youthful appearance... Dr Agrawal is well educated and has had lots of state-of-the-art technology hands-on-experience (on my brain included!  :-\ ;) :D). Best of all he has great people skills… and may be able to put your mind more at ease. His teacher, Dr. Jackler, was very good at doing that with me. It is Dr. Agrawal that stays connected with me post surgery- and he has put mind at ease also.

More HUGS.

4

4cm Left, 08/22/07 R/S 11+ hr surgery Stanford U, Dr. Robert Jackler, Dr. Griffith Harsh, Canadian fellow Assist. Dr. Sumit Agrawal. SSD, 3/6 on HB facial scale, stick-on-eyeweight worked, 95% eye function@ 6 months. In neuromuscular facial retraining. Balance regained! Recent MRI -tumor receded!

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7451
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #10 on: February 01, 2008, 12:45:52 pm »
The concern with radiating tumors is that this can change the nature of the tumor and often making it more adherent to the brain- if it needs to be surgically removed later-on . Radiation WILL change the nature and the consistency of the tumor. (Hopefully change it enough to kill the thing -but not always.) This has been well documented. However there have been many successful radiation stories too (Lorenzo comes to mind)- but often they do feel pretty darn awful after the treatment as everything inside the head is swollen and irritated (much like us surgery folks experienced also.) There are other issues with radiation as it can affect areas other than just the tumor location. An experienced radiation surgeon (GK etc) with an excellent record of precision -is key as… with micro surgery.

Hi 4! Good to see you!  You know I respect all you say and share here... :).... I have to beg to differ (agree to disagree) on this comment noted in red.  There are MANY of us that endured mild to no side affects post-radiotreatments (check with Mark, who is over 6 yrs post CK with a dead-as-nails AN, as well a few others.. .including Lorenzo... who I believe had some minor side affects but best to let him answer....).  it is true that the texture and such does change post radiation and they key, as you note, is the experienced treating physician (regardless of microsurgery or radiation/radiosurgery).  We know there have been HUGE debates about radiation and if you quiz many here on this board that have had radiation (all forms, Proton, GK, CK, FSR, Trilogy, etc), I do believe that although there have been a few failures noted, for the most part, everyone is thrilled with their decisions and are doing as great as they can with successful radiation/radiosurgery outcomes.

There have been discussions and I do believe, as recent as the ANA Symposium last summer (for anyone that attended, can you please confirm this?) that radiation/radiosurgery is now being considered (although not completed confirmed) as a first potential choice of AN treatment on small to medium sized AN's where options are available vs. invasive.  Hoping for someone that attended to please confirm my understanding as this has been relayed to me in many ways.......

I know this sounds all pro-radio, but know that, as I noted before... regardless of decisions made by anyone, that we fully support and stand by any AN patient and their treatment choice (if it is a choice). 

Crap, can you tell I had caffeine again today?

4 (and Denise!), sending you BIG huggles and wishes for wellness... regardless of the discussion, I hope you are doing great, have a great weekend and .... GO PATS! :D

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

HeadCase2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 778
  • Carpe Grog
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2008, 01:35:22 pm »
Hi Denise,
  I agree with the others that the AN is shown in the last MRI you posted. 
  I'm no expert (and that's why I'm not getting the the big bucks to look at these-- you get what you pay for  ;) ), it looks like it may have grown.  Using a piece of paper on the screen to measure it and then matching the paper along the cm scale on the ride side of the MRI, I measure about 1.9 cm x 1.3 cm.  Your AN looks like it may have a "classic" ice cream cone shape, with the narrow part in the IAC, and then extending out from the IAC toward the CVA (the notch between the cerebellum and the pons).
  I can tell by your curiosity that you'll find out all you need to to make an informed decision on treatment that you'll have confidence in.  Good luck with your doctors visit next week.  We all know what it's like at this stage, trying to decide on the right strategy.  That's just normal when you find out you have one of these $^%# things.
Regards,
 Rob
1.5 X 1.0 cm AN- left side
Retrosigmoid 2/9/06
Duke Univ. Hospital

GrogMeister of the PBW

Pembo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 644
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2008, 02:42:56 pm »
HI Denise. I had surgery when my kids were 8,6, and 2. I had it at the beginning of summer. My kids spent a couple weeks with my parents and then came home one at a time. We had lots of friends who volunteered to take the kids on a lot of outings. They had a really great summer considering Mom was home sleeping most of the time. ;) You might want to consider a summer surgery for the flexibility of people helping with your kids.

Good luck in your decision.
Surgery June 3, 2004, University Hospitals Cleveland, BAHA received in 2005, Facial Therapy at UPMC 2006

sgerrard

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3475
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2008, 03:05:07 pm »
but often they do feel pretty darn awful after the treatment as everything inside the head is swollen and irritated

I'm on a radiation rampage today, so I am going to chime in on this statement and Phyl's response.

When I had a severe cold over Christmas, 4's phrase "pretty darn awful" would be putting it mildly. The pressure sensations were beyond "fullness", into the realm of unbearable. "Someone please cut off my head!" I would moan.

I happen to have researched Mark and Lorenzo pretty thoroughly back when I was deciding on CK, and know that both reported at least one bad incident. Mark I believe woke up one day with nasty vertigo that lasted several days. Lorenzo had quite a battle over several months with his facial nerve getting stretched out, then shrinking back up - or something like that.

So I think it is true that quite a few radiation patients experience a bout of "feeling lousy" in one form or another. You don't really get off scott free with radiation, and it can be quite annoying that it takes months for the business to settle down and stabilize. In my case, so far that is 4 Months, 2 Weeks, 5 Days, and 13 Hours...

Still, I wouldn't change a thing about my choice of treatment. :)

Steve

8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

ppearl214

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7451
  • ANA Forum Policewoman - PBW Cursed Cruise Director
Re: Newest MRI pic .....
« Reply #14 on: February 04, 2008, 08:06:19 am »
Hi Steve and thanks!  You are correct and my comments were based on the quote of:

"...as everything inside the head is swollen and irritated"... as we know this is not the case due to the concentrated beam of the CK radiation.  Everyting inside the head does not swell and is irritated from CK...... should only be a small amt of localized normal tissues as well as minimal brainstem hit (should be no more than 10-12Gy  for a brainstem hit).

But, you are right... none of us are scot-free... as we all know, individual results may vary... including me.... :)

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"