Life insurance post FSR

[Ned]

I am in the life insurance business and having a very difficult time finding any company willing to underwrite a policy on me.  ALL companies interviewed so far ONLY view surgery as the only acceptable cure to  AN's.  They are telling me to just wait untill we see some shrinkage, that may never happen.  I represent over 40 companies and this is SOP with every one.  Any others had this experience?

[jamie]

I've never heard of any life insurance companies denying coverage for patients who had radiosurgery. I've also never found any info in all my research that we are expected to die before anybody else, have you? I find it highly strange that any life insurance company would deny coverage. I have life insurance. It's quite a coincidence though, there was just a link posted of an interview with a House surgeon that makes the same claim about life insurance. And I've never heard of this before today, I will have to look into the life insurance thing further. Just curious, where did you have your FSR done? What doctor? I had mine at Barrow Neurological with Dr. Kresl.

[Ned]

I have 25 years working in the Life business and was shocked at ALL the underwriters views.  Seems NONE have radiation treatment in their tables as far as life expectancy.  I was told that as soon as my tumor stabilized they would consider but at a rated basis.
I had my FSR performed at Centenniel Hospital at The Sara Cannon Cancer Center.  They were using the peacock system and that's what my research led me to.  28 days of treatment, one of the major problems was they hadn't done enough to be able to understand some of my post treatment problems

[jamie]

I decided to pose the life insurance question to the Doctors on the CK support site, here's what they said......

Me:

It seems that the newest "scare tactic" circulating about radiosurgery, is that it is nearly impossible to get life insurance after having had radiosurgery for an AN or other benign tumor. What is being said is that life insurance companies only accept surgery as a "cure". I've never heard this before, and I wasn't aware that we were expected to die sooner than anybody else after radiosurgery. I was wondering if any of the doctors, or patients who have applied for life insurance can comment on this. Thank you.

Dr. Medbery

I'll be glad to help anyone take on the life insurance company on this one. I feel confident they will lose.

Just out of curiosity, where did you hear about this?

Dr. Rosenberg

I would be glad to help too. I would bet you could collect letters from experts around the world on this one.

http://www.cyberknifesupport.org/forum/?f=16&m=3249&g=3254#m3254

If you are having problems obtaining life insurance, perhaps you should speak with your treating physician and dispute their decision.

[jamie]

Seems NONE have radiation treatment in their tables as far as life expectancy.

Well, radiation treatment should have no bearing whatsoever on life expectancy. These are benign tumors, they are only sometimes life threatening when neglected. Even in the rare instance radiosurgery were to fail, there is the option to have it surgically removed with no greater chance of death than anybody else who has a major surgery. As far as I know, insurance companies look at the disease, not the treatment. If you had a glioblastoma, sure it may be tough to get life insurance. But an AN? Doesn't add up at all. There are plenty of chronic conditions that are FAR more threatening to life, and those patients get life insurance. 

I was told that as soon as my tumor stabilized they would consider but at a rated basis.

And how exactly do they know whether your tumor has stabilized or not? How would they know it's size before and after treatment? Also, it seems strange they are informed enough to know how radiosurgery works, but not informed enough to know the difference between a benign and malignant tumor. Just doesn't add up. I suppose they deny coverage to anybody who has a condition that carries a 2 to 5 percent chance of requiring a surgery in the future (after 5 years that chance drops to nearly zero)?

[Ned]

Let me explain further my conversations with medical underwriters from American General, West Coast Life, Transamerica, Old Line Mutual and a couple of others.  I explained my history, this was last year about 18 months post FSR.  I told them the initial size of the tumoe, about 1.0x1.1x1.1.  On my 18 month MRI  my AN was 1.5x1.4x1.2.  My Radiologist was unconcerned and said this swelling was normal.
If you are not in the insurance business, you can OFTEN be very upset with how the medical directors view various medical conditions.  From what they told me, they were concerned that the tumor was still there and had not been removed and that the tumoe appeared to them it was growing.  I attempted to educatethem and gave them my doctor's phone number.
Since then I have developed some additional health problems, including 2 moderately blocked arteries as well as some evere HBP that is not responding to the meds I am using, still working on this.
What is needed, is for someone that is considering  the purchase of life insurance , and has no additional health problems, to fight the system.  I would be willing to help, I represent over 50 different companies .
If the underwriters aren't educated, many people will be denied or offered high priced life and disability insurance.  I'm sure disability underwriters are going to be tough to change.

[jamie]

If you are not in the insurance business, you can OFTEN be very upset with how the medical directors view various medical conditions. 

Actually, I am in the insurance business. I work in clinical coverage review, and work directly with medical directors. Stereotactic radiosurgery is considered a proven and effective treatment for brain tumors, benign or malignant, and is 100% payable. If insurance will pay for the procedure, I just don't see how one could be denied life insurance because of the treatment option chosen, perhaps your other medical issues played a role in the denial? I have NEVER heard of any radiosurgery patients being denied life insurance, and I have been researching it quite a bit since the House doc interview, and your post. I can find no patient stories or online SOP's supporting those claims. I will continue to research this, and I will try and contact some life insurance underwriters and enquire further. Also, since you work in the industry, perhaps you can provide the SOP language they are using to deny coverage?   

[Ned]

Jamie,
Whether you believe what I am saying is irrelevant.  I posted what happened to me .  You are dealing with a different side of the insurance industry, medical insurance, I had no problem with my insurance carrier paying for my FSR.  The SOP is what i wrote in my previous post.  I.m not interested in an argument.

[jamie]

Whoa, I never said I didn't believe what you were saying. I just believe maybe whatever underwriters you were dealing with made a mistake in their decisions, that's why I asked for the actual SOP, which I do not see listed on your previous post. I'm interested in the language that was interpreted to make the denial, which is something they should provide. Why are you so defensive? Nobody wants an argument.

[Ned]

I don't understand what a SOP might be.  I  thought it meant "standard operating procedure".
Not being defensive, sometimes it is hard to interpret one's tone when using posts.  I apologize if I appeared defensive.  Perhaps we could chat on the phone.  Are you the moderator?

[jamie]

No, I've never seen any posts from any mods on this board. I have no idea if there even is any. SOP does mean standard operating procedure, but usually there will be specific plan language, in which a denial is based. Kind of like when you are denied credit, they send you an explanation as to why you were denied, or when a medical procedure is denied, we have to send documentation showing the specific language in the plan on which the decision was based. What I'm wondering is, are these underwriters making coverage decisions off the top of their heads based on their own personal understanding of a certain procedure or condition, or is there a plan document they are going by? Hopefully it's not the former, because that would be quite wrong for a non-medical professional to personally determine your medical status. Hopefully you understand what I mean, my questions are in no way directed at you. I guess I'm just wondering aloud, online.   

[Ned]

No problem.  My discussions with the underwriters were very informal, I never submitted an application, just getting an underwriting opinion, as I often do with various medical conditions.  All the underwriters referred to their manuals.  Perhaps, if a case was formally submitted, we could then go to the wall about their position.  I can't do it because of other extenuating medical problems.  There are thousands of AN patients that are going to need Life and disability coverage that had radiation.

[antoinette]

Hi Ned.
Are you the Ned that was on the previous ANAUSA?
If yes, I want to say Hello first. and, ask : Is it because there are many sugical removal of AN after radiation treatments that they do not consider treated ANs as cured?
I remember something like that many yearsw ago.
antoinette

[jamie]

Is it because there are many sugical removal of AN after radiation treatments that they do not consider treated ANs as cured?

There are no more surgical removals after radiation than regrowths after surgical removal, so if that's the case, they are dead wrong. I plan to speak with a life insurance underwriter and find out next week, I'll let you guys know what I find out. 

[Ned]

Hello Antoinette, yeah its me.  Hope things are well for you.
To answer your question, the answer is no. ALL the underwriters I spoke with were referring to their underwriting manual under the AN section and told me there really wasn't a section regarding radiation treatment.  The only thing they had for treatment was surgery and if all the tumor was removed, and no further growth, there was a possibility of obtaining standard rated coverage, no disability coverage.  What they all said was their concern that the tumor was not removed.  I think they just haven't seen many applicants to investigate further.  They told me they would review when and if my tumor bagan to shrink.