Author Topic: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment  (Read 6291 times)

Vivian B.

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Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« on: March 19, 2009, 09:19:04 pm »
Hi Guys,

I feel like I am posting too many things now. Starting to lose it. Does anybody know the difference between CK and GK? In Canada I don't think we have CK, we have GK and some other radiation that I can't even remember now.

For people who had CK, when you went for consult, were you provided with stats of regrowth and were you provided with stats of possible cancer?

The Gammaknife centre here in Canada is only 3 years old although they have doctors that had worked on gammaknife in other parts of the country. Their stats however, are very limited.

Some online sites are good but confusing. Sometimes I don't quite get the whole picture.

Any ideas, please let me know.


Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

Tisha

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #1 on: March 20, 2009, 02:46:15 am »
Gammaknife is a one shot deal that hits the center of the tumor.  It's been around for decades and has good tumor control stats, although hearing preservation is at 50-60% I believe.

Cyberknife attempts to save the hearing at statistics of 75-80% preservation. (serviceable level 1 and 2).  Instead of all the radiation beam converging in one point at the center, it "paints" throughout the tumor.  It's usually done in 3-5 treatments, 3 being the norm.

Tumor control with CK is 98-99%.  What I've read about cancer is that the likelihood of getting cancer is no more than if you just got cancer somewhere else in your body without CK.

Never feel like you are posing too many things.  Tisha
1.7 x 1.0 x .9 cm (diagnosed Oct 2008)
1.8 x 1.2 x 1.1 cm  (July 2010-swelling)
1.5 x .9 x .9 cm  (Mar 2013 - 5 yr MRI)
Cyberknife at Stanford, week of 1/12/09 -  Drs. Chang and Soltys

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #2 on: March 20, 2009, 05:56:59 am »
Hi Tisha,

Thank you for your input. Keep in touch.

Vivian

CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

sgerrard

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #3 on: March 21, 2009, 10:41:02 am »
I have moved this topic to the radiation section, since it is about CK and GK.

I want to make some general comments. One is that GK and CK are both very good systems for treating ANs with radiation. When Nancy Drew was looking into it (she ended up doing GK in Colorado), we had quite a good discussion about the differences and similarities. CK may be somewhat better for hearing preservation; the hard numbers on that have not been published, but there are indications that the rate is a little higher. Given the choice, I chose CK, but I would not hesitate to do GK instead - they are both good.

The second is about findings stats. You will not find many stats for individual facilities. Two exceptions would be House Ear Clinic on surgery, and Stanford on Cyberknife; there are some others. Unless they are publishing papers on the subject, most facilities will not have that data. There has been talk of setting up national databases of this sort of thing, but it is all talk so far.

I think it makes more sense to look at the overall results of surgery and radiation. It does help to find a treating doctor who has experience dealing with ANs, but for radiation it is probably less important, since much of the work is done by computers anyway.

The really important point is that the statistics are just a guideline, they are not a guarantee of what will happen to you. You can pick the best and still come out with a crummy result, and you can pick an unknown doctor and come out with a great result. It is not generally easy to decide what to do, but I think most of find that at some point, one particular course of action feels like the right thing for us - a gut feeling that this is what we are going to do. Once that happens, you commit to it, and then stop worrying about it and see what happens.

Steve
8 mm left AN June 2007,  CK at Stanford Sept 2007.
Hearing lasted a while, but left side is deaf now.
Right side is weak too. Life is quiet.

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #4 on: March 21, 2009, 10:53:49 am »
Hi Steve,

Thanks for your comments. I have noticed that a lot of people who had surgery have had regrowths. Based on your research, do you think the pattern would be the same with radiation? By the way, there is a site cyperknife:patient that someone on the forum directed me too and you ask questions directly to Drs and they reply so quickly. They actually told me that Cyberknife is coming to Canada soon but do not know exactly when.

Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

mk

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2009, 11:37:55 am »
The second is about findings stats. You will not find many stats for individual facilities. Two exceptions would be House Ear Clinic on surgery, and Stanford on Cyberknife; there are some others. Unless they are publishing papers on the subject, most facilities will not have that data. There has been talk of setting up national databases of this sort of thing, but it is all talk so far.


I wanted to add that Pittsburgh has tons of published stats on GK, since 1989. I have only seen one published paper from Stanford - another one is supposedly coming up soon. There are also many studies on the fractionated - LINAC type approach. Even the Toronto group has published on this. Also, it is important to understand that since the protocol for GK is so much standardized nowadays and the equipment very similar (or the same in many centres), the stats shouldn't vary significantly from centre to centre.

Marianna
GK on April 23rd 2008 for 2.9 cm AN at Toronto Western Hospital. Subsequent MRIs showed darkening initially, then growth. Retrosigmoid surgery on April 26th, 2011 with Drs. Akagami and Westerberg at Vancouver General Hospital. Graduallly lost hearing after GK and now SSD but no other issues.

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2009, 03:24:48 pm »
Hi Marianna,

Good to hear from you. Hope is well. Thanks for replying. I just seem to have more and more questions everyday. Sometimes I am on question overload that I don't even know whether I am coming or going. I guess part of the process, but things are getting straighter in my mind. I think!

Talk to you soon.

Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

ppearl214

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #7 on: March 23, 2009, 05:56:27 am »
Hi Vivian,

there is not much more for me to add about CK.... but I can share that most that have higher levels of hearing prior to treatment may opt for fractionated treatment (ie: CK, etc) to help with hearing preservation (as I did for my hearing).  I know of many that opted for GK as they went into treatment with much lower hearing levels. 

Also, there are so very minimal reports of malignancy from radio-treatments for AN's (regardless of which type).  The count is so minimal, I actually have a higher percentage of being hit by lightening.  Many docs will use "malignancy from radiation" as a scare tactic and there have been many discussions here on the forums about it (go to the forum home page and do a "search" option on it... you will see all the discussions).

Sounds like you are doing all the necessary research and becoming the best, well-informed patient you can be.  You will know in your gut what will work best for you. :)

Hang in there,
Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Nancy Drew

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #8 on: March 26, 2009, 08:45:45 pm »
Wow Steve, You referenced me!  I haven't been forgotten.  I feel special!

Hi Vivian,  Sorry you are having to deal with an AN.  It is such a difficult decision to figure out which way to go.  You can look at my signature for my up to date results.  I know CK is supposed to be better for hearing preservation so that is probably something to keep in mind.  I had GK on Oct. 21, 2008.  I had pretty good hearing going in, and I haven't lost any hearing post GK.  I feel very lucky at this point, but I know it's a waiting game.  I would have to say, by far, that the worst part is making your decision.  Just a last little side note:  If the headframe freaks you out, I can honestly say it was no big deal for me.  Some people have a problem with the idea of it.  The GK machine was actually less stressful than having a MRI.

Nancy

12/05 AN diagnosed left ear 4.5mm
06/08 6mm
Gamma Knife 10/21/08
1 year MRI  6.8mm x 5.5mm
2 year MRI  5.9mm x 4.9mm
3 year MRI  6.5mm x 6.0mm 
Slight Hearing Loss Post GK

Swedish Gamma Knife Center
Englewood, CO
Dr. Robert Feehs

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #9 on: March 27, 2009, 07:59:44 am »
Hi Nancy,

Thanks for replying. You are right, worst part is deciding and I also think of afterwords. It's seems this is something you need to monitor always. I am still feeling a lot of anxiety about it and trying to cope with the idea. Very difficult.

Thanks for sharing your story.

Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

ppearl214

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #10 on: March 27, 2009, 09:02:57 am »
Vivian,

did they confirm if it is, indeed, a meningioma?

Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #11 on: March 27, 2009, 10:19:01 am »
Hi Phil,

I saw my GP, ENT Surgeon, Neurosurgeon and Radiation Specialiist and they all said that because of the location sitting on facial nerve that it was a meningioma and that it is of the same pathology as an AN and treated in the same manner. I tell you, I am trying to be brave but I am still freaked out. Gettiing a little bit better but can't shake off that anguish feeling.

Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.

ppearl214

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #12 on: March 27, 2009, 02:22:26 pm »
Hey vivian and thanks for the update. I know, in my case (and others), dr's will say they can't be 100% sure unless they go in to get it out.... I've heard of some say that they had AN's but once they had surgery, found out it was another growth type.  Either way, you are doing everything right. You are asking questions (btw, saw your questions to the docs on the CK board... very smart to do so as well... they know their stuff!) and I know you are trying to take a deep breath in between.

Just keep breathing... we're all here to help the cause :)

TGIF!
Phyl
"Gentlemen, I wash my hands of this weirdness", Capt Jack Sparrow - Davy Jones Locker, "Pirates of the Carribbean - At World's End"

Vivian B.

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Re: Difference between Cyberknife and Gammaknife treatment
« Reply #13 on: March 27, 2009, 03:47:28 pm »
Hi Phyl,

Thanks for replying. Are you happy with the treatment you received? Would you have done it any other way? How did you come to decide on it? Sorry for all the questions. By the way where are you from?

Vivian
CPA AN(most likely meningioma) 1.6cm by 1.5cm by 1.9cm diagnosed early March 09. Watch and Wait.