the new health bill?

[Jim Scott]

anyone have information about how the provision in this bill creating a tax on "medical devices" will do to the price of BAHA, Transear, etc?  Just curious.

The final bill imposed a 'medical device manufacturer tax ' totaling $19 billion with a $2 billion annual tax on the industry imposed relative to shares of sales made that year.  That rises to $3 billion annually in 2017.  The law exempts medical devices retailing for $100.  I expect the manufacturers will 'pass on' the tax to consumers in the form of higher prices for their products.   

Jim  

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

Boil the frog?  ....

...I wonder if Pandora's Box is filled with boiled frogs...

Steve

Stevie, (Am I the only one who gets away with calling you that?    )

Lots of words rhyme with “Frogs”
•   Bogs
•   Cogs
•   Clogs
•   Dogs
•   Fogs
•   Grogs
•   Hogs
•   Jogs
•   Logs
•   Pogs (collecting game for kids)…


And know that Dr Seuss also made up rhyming words.

You can use “Zogs” in your poem and create a whole new creature with this title

After all I am convinced the doctor was struggling with beaches and came up with “Sneetches”

Tracks … hmmm “Zax”  (he avoided the "tax" word completely- brilliant mind was the Doctor)

The Sneetches and Other Stories – a must read manual for any forum moderator

HUGGLES

Daisy Head Mayzie (Is that spelt with a zee or a zed?)

Know that I STILL love you and I felt you were most worthy of being recommended as a co-leader... and still do  . Your poetry and limericks writing ability is an amazing gift... keeping tapping in on it.

[leapyrtwins]

I still the think the Supremes will not find it unconstitutional,

Are we talking Diana Ross & the Supremes, here??   

Sorry, just couldn't leave that one alone 

[lori67]

Wait.  What?  Diana Ross is boiling frogs in Pandora's box?  I'm confused.   

Lori

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

 

Lori  & Jan,


Keeling over...


You two are just too hilarious!
 

Gawd my sides hurt 

DHM

[Soundy]

I named one thing I liked about the bill. If you have everybody in the insurance pool, healthy and sick, that will pay for those previously denied coverage. BTW, that is how insurance is supposed to work. If you only have old and sick people of course it will be costly. That is what the insurance companies are asking for, as well.


This bill is a first step, it is not perfect. I look at it more as a work in progress.  One of my problems from what I observe people want from healthcare is that many want everything under the sun covered and they pay nothing. Healthcare should be affordable, not free.  For example: If I go for a blood work-up the bill from the lab is $300--after this is adjusted through my insurance plan it becomes $70, of which my insurance pays $56 and I pay $14.(aren't I lucky!) Someone without insurance is billed $300, and that is the amount of loss reported when they don't pay it.  Now if it was $70 for everybody, I believe, more people would pay, the amount of coverage needed could be less and the overall cost to insure would be less.

Neal

BINGO ... what is what I was trying to say but you did so with less garble

OK ...as for cows ... I have 50 at my disposal and about 25 calves ranging from a week to 5 month old ... a couple weeks we will have some
weaned and ready to go ... wonder how many stamps it would take for a 500 pound feeder


as to pre-existing crapola ....I am not oppose to insurance companies having pre -existing clauses ... the buying insurance because you are
sick and need coverage for some procedure and then dropping coverage when well  would break them


I have a problem when a company that takes over for another says they are providing you with a seamless transition as if you were still under your
other policy then treats you as preexisting as has been done to me ... BCBS took over from Cigna in June or July  ( don't remember) of 2008 a year
after my surgery ... they told me at meeting with reps I would be fully covered but that has not been so .... a group of us with ongoing health
issues banded together and thought we had things worked out with BCBS but they still do for most of us differently than was stated ...
they told us that at plan revamp in July most all of us would no longer be considered pre-existing ... with my husbands pay stub yesterday
there was a nice note saying that we will still have a chance to voice veiws but that things may stand as is until July 2014 .... come see us in
July and we'll talk ....this is a bunch of bull ...I have found out that if I were to purchase a policy with them privately that pre-existing problems
would lose that designation anywhere from 6 month to a year after policy goes into force ...there is no such clause written into tis policy to that effect.
couldn' t afford them privately or I would have been dropped from husbands policy and taken a policy with them separate from Bo and the girls


the company Bo is with is locked into a 10 year contract with BCBS ....so we have a way to go ....and I have checked around and haven't been able
to find someone that wants to take me on with premiums I can pay

who I really need to be mad at is the man who got this put into place ...he paid no premiums , was pulling a half million dollar paycheck home and
the company paid what ever the policy didn't so he didn't give a hoot what it did to the rest of us ... the highest paid worked aside from several office
workers that are at about $120,000 annually , make $60,000 after taxes ... Bo considerably less at about $35,000 .... the former manager left about
8 month ago after being caught with his hand in the money jar ... he was not charged and didn't pay anything back ...he also took the company
from $4,000,000 in the good to 17 million in the hole putting in fiber optic cables through the county ....he already had another job lined up with another
municipal department in another Tennessee county ... and in return for not taking his retirement put back from fund  (several millions ) and taking any
thing he would have received upon leaving such as continued  insurance coverage for him and his wife , he would not pbe prosecuted ...

and you know what??? he was a city government and still is just somewhere else ...just think what he could accomplish on a national level ...


crawling back to my corner , thumb in hand

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

 

Just for those who are having a hard time following

What I love about the English language is similes, metaphors, homophones, and how it can play on humor. Know that even pronunciations of words in English are different from each county (EG "Z" in the USA is "ZEE" and in Canada and Britain "Zed") In Canada they spell humoUR with a "u"...

I have provided the definition to help any of our readers who may not have English as their first language and may take us as literally nuts (which in truth we are   happily so ) and for those who it is their 1st language but the are in a different continent and culture ... I did not want to leave anyone in-the-dust of our North American debate which has reached the headline of every international newspaper.

I bet Lori has much experience with kids at the elementary school age … She has the ability to break the ice and have many of us giggle as we get too complex with our language…


"Boil the frog"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

"Pandora's box"
http://www.answers.com/topic/pandora-s-box
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora's_box

The "Supremes"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Supremes

The "Supreme" court (USA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supreme_Court_of_the_United_States

Dianna Ross
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diana_Ross


Break the ice
http://www.allwords.com/word-break+the+ice.html

“Break the ice to ease the initial restraint or awkwardness of a meeting or social gathering”
http://encarta.msn.com/dictionary_1861619823/ice.html

Left-in-the-dust
leave somebody/something in the dust
1. to move quickly away from someone or something If a big truck bears down on you from behind, this powerful car can leave it in the dust.
2. to replace someone or something with something new This new computer virus left last year's killer virus in the dust.
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust


Lori you are a true asset to our forum (Gawd Lori you have a great sense of humoUr!... a gift up there with Steve’s limericks and hat knitting

Anyway thus my reason for the definition links… so others new to the forum, those outside the US , and are trying to figure this out… are not in the dark.

http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/left+in+the+dark.html


You know there is nothing worse than being caught in the dark with no pants. And if you are starting to misinterpret that I first suggest reading Dr. Seuss’s Sneetches book that has a quick short story titled: What was I scared of?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories


I am convinced that although these Seuss books were created to get kids to find fun reading – they were definitely written at a figurative level to address the adults who are reading to the child.

What I love about the “Wiki” idea is in helps others to get the quick jest of a topic…

Anyway I want to remain sensitive to this guideline that Pearly Whites posted
quote

Pls read: Updated Forum Netiquette Guidelines
« on: April 06, 2008, 11:06:31 AM »
Recognize and Accept Cultural and Linguistic Differences

The Internet is international, and while English is generally accepted as the common language of the network, ANA and forum subscribers cannot afford to take the position that everyone on the Internet understands English well. It is important to be polite and understanding of others on the list who may have difficulty using the English language, just as one would be when meeting someone from a foreign country in person.

Additionally, care should be taken when using local idiom and slang. A common word or phrase used by Americans in everyday speech, for instance, might be taken as profanity or insult by those in other English-speaking countries, and may not be understood at all by non-native speakers of English. It is probably best to avoid non-standard English so as to provide the clearest and least-objectionable exchange of ideas.


Steve knows we all love him- but other readers may not realize that. (Well I hope Steve knows that) We are only teasing him about a play on words as he is in a tough job of being a moderator when words of others can be misinterpreted.

Know Steve that even though we tease you- it is because we love you!

DHM

[Soundy]

a while back my husband asked me what I had done all day ... I told him I had gone to my Moms to help her kill rats ...in horror he asked if
she had so many rats that she needed help to kill them and couldn't just set a couple traps ... after giggling to the point of threat of wetting
pants I had to explain I had went to help her run errands


back to regularly scheduled program

[nancyann]

Soundy:  go on with your bad self !!!!

[lawmama]

Sorry, I thought "boil the fog" was a more common saying. I meant that the are trying to implement a huge change gradually so that the public won’t be as shocked and are less likely to fight it.  I think the intention of the Democrat party in the US is to move to a true single-payer healthcare system- universal healthcare like we see in many other countries, if you will- and they think this is merely a first step toward that goal.  I don’t believe they intend this Bill to “fix” healthcare in the US, just be a first step toward their true goal.  That’s essentially what I meant by “boil the frog” when I spoke about this healthcare bill.  They think we will accept the change if they do it gradually.  (And the old saying about boiling a frog is:  If you put a frog into boiling water, it will jump out.  BUT, if you put it in a pot of room temperature water and very gradually turn up the water, it will stay put.  Boiled frog.)

And Steve, I really do disagree that the Supreme Court overturning this would allow many other things related to taxation to be overturned.  Like I said before, the real distinction in this case is the fact that this Bill allows the IRS to tax people for doing absolutely nothing.  You aren’t working, you aren’t applying for a license or permit, you aren’t buying anything- you are NOT engaged in any sort of Commerce.  You are taxed for merely being in the US and not having health insurance.  There isn’t anything out there that I am aware of that is analogous to that.  I just don’t believe the power granted to Congress under the Commerce Clause was ever meant to go there.  I could make a slippery-slope argument building on that power that goes really far.  It practically gives Congress unlimited power to regulate anything that might have an effect on the market in the US.  Well…..anything you do has an effect on the market somehow.  Before, you always had to actively do something to subject yourself to taxation.  You could sit in your house and do nothing and be left alone.  Now, there seems to be no “right” to be left alone from the government.   That is a step farther than anything I am aware of.  Personally, I don't like it.  I'm not an "ends justify the means" kind of person.  There are other ways.


Lyn

[leapyrtwins]

Stevie     

Janney

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

Stevie     

Janney

  dhm

[sgerrard]

Lyn,

How would you feel if they changed the wording, and said they are adding a $1,000 health insurance tax, but you get a $1,000 tax credit if you have health insurance?

For all those hermits out there who don't work, have no income, and own nothing, and pay no property tax or sales tax or income tax, I think they are off the hook. You have to have a minimum income, for instance, for it to apply.

The interesting thing is that providing medical care is an unusual kind of service. There are laws that require giving care to someone in critical condition, regardless of whether they have insurance or means to pay for it. That means that by merely existing, every individual adds to the risk pool. I think that will provide the necessary wiggle room to allow taxing someone for "doing nothing."

As for boiling the frog, I firmly believe that no one is planning that far ahead. It will be up to future politicians to go for a single payer system, if any of them choose to try. Right now those future politicians are too busy trying to finish up law school.  

Stevie

[4cm in Pacific Northwest]

As for boiling the frog, I firmly believe that no one is planning that far ahead. It will be up to future politicians to go for a single payer system, if any of them choose to try. Right now those future politicians are too busy trying to finish up law school.  

Stevie

There are many sides to the coin… and I think there is NO perfect socialized health care system to follow.
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/idioms/other+side+of+the+coin.html

Many people think that Canada has a “National” Health care system… where in fact is does not. It is actually “provincially” run. Not all provinces are running their systems as well as each other… some have more strengths and weaknesses than others.

The province of BC is in the middle of a HUGE geriatric crisis… The biggest problem is that it is Canada’s “Banana belt” (no they do not grow bananas there it is a Canadian figure of speech) as many Canadians retire to there because of the milder climate.

Banana belt defined
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_belt

The problem being that many people want to retire to BC … but the infrastructure was not equipped for this huge aging population… and is barely catching up with the demand. These retirees did not pay into the BC healthcare but in fact plans in other provinces- yet they are using the healthcare system (and budget) most- in BC… to which many did not pay fees into during their working life (nor BC taxes) in their youth. Here are some links to look at

Ontario Health care
http://www.health.gov.on.ca/en/public/programs/ohip/

BC Health care
http://www.health.gov.bc.ca/insurance/about_hi.html

Alberta health care
http://www.health.alberta.ca/health-care-insurance-plan.html

2005 archive news story in US media about Canada
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/03/20/health/main681801.shtml

This month’s news in Canada
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/national/british-columbia/bc-health-minister-defends-modest-spending-hikes/article1488931/

All is NOT peaceful in Canada as some may think- here is another story
http://www.nationalpost.com/life/health/story.html?id=1328987


I have had some very questionable healthcare here since my arrival in the USA over a decade ago and some days I have felt my good insurance card was viewed as an “open access platinum gold visa card” as I truly have encountered some greedy physicians who exploited this (and me). I have only encountered a few very professional medical staff I felt I could trust who’s ideals for patient wellness was a more important value to them than making a huge profit (or funding a medical research project   .)

However also know I have had some horrendous   waiting situations in Canada with relatives and myself to which ER rooms or surgical room waiting lists failed us.

BOTH sides have huge problems …

However both systems have some great strength too.

As long as the debate remains polarized then solutions will NOT happen and problems and discrepancies will only get worse.

Much like the ZAK’s created by Dr. Seuss (in the book I already mentioned http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sneetches_and_Other_Stories… the arguers can get SOOH embroiled they neglect to see the world rapidly changing around them.

Reform and tax paid healthcare has already come through the US door… and as we continue to argue like the Zak’s. …Meanwhile acoustic neuroma patients still can be *left in the dust. (* idiom)
* http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust
http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/left+in+the+dust

We, as acoustic neuroma patients, have needs to be met and we should work “as a collective” to achieve these.

•   AN patients who have a hearing device (baha prosthetic or otherwise) will perform better in the workplace if they can hear better… and some may be more employable if they have access to a devise.  (Ie getting out of the unemployment line) These should be covered on insurance… Yes some folks can re-mortgage as they have built up years of equity to get one. However the 27 year old with a student loan debt and no credit rating to finance one- won’t be able to afford a baha… and may not succeed at the job interview because of the hearing impairment.

AN patients who have facial nerve damage have a myriad of other issues.
•   The eye weight should be covered on insurance

•   The Botox is not a just cosmetic injection to give us symmetry it is actually is “pain management” to give relief from the hypertonic muscles that can really hurt.

•   A temporalis tendon transfer is NOT just cosmetic.
•   Here is a Canadian new article about this procedure
•   http://www.ctv.ca/servlet/ArticleNews/story/CTVNews/20070718/facial_surgery_070718/20070718?hub=Health
•   Before and after photos of this surgery
•   http://www.hopkinsfacialplastics.com/gallery_facial_reanimation.php

A placid face not only makes it impossible to smile and make facial expressions for communication… it is also hard to keep food in and EAT (dental issues can arise too)… This plastic surgery is NOT cosmetic…. Yet some people have had to pay out-of-pocket as insurance see this as “cosmetic”

Vestibular therapy is a must for many who need to stand up right and move in their job- in order to get back to work sooner… yet not always covered by insurance if an in network PT is not available.

So meanwhile as the ZAK’s keep arguing and the highway builders simply create a bi-pass around them… they are left in the dust.*

What can we as a collaborating peaceful collective of Acoustic Neuroma patients do to be heard? What can we do to make sure our fellow AN’er are not discriminated against?

(I personally want a budding young law school student with an interest in politics on OUR side- especially since they have walked some miles in our shoes of the acoustic neuroma journey… and they have witnessed first hand that their fellow ANA buddies came out with many more complications, than others, and they sure need some help)

What as a collective, peaceful group of well-articulated acoustic neuroma patients, can WE do to get our voices heard so our acoustic neuroma issue can be heard- so we can be part of finding those solutions? What can we do to get insurance (private, public, or otherwise) to cover Baha’s, eye weights, Botox, plastic surgery, Topomax… I am sure others can contribute to the list… such as the gallons of eye drops purchased each year. What about giving an acoustic neuroma patient enough time off to actually recover properly, at home, before forcing them back to work when they are not yet ready… and some have inevitably lost their jobs as they were not ready yet to perform at their pre-surgery abilities?

Daisy Head Mayzie

PS
Currently I feel like a Who from Whosville... (as well as Daisy Head Mayzie   ) in Dr. Suess's Horton Hears a Who
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Horton_Hears_a_Who!
... or maybe more a "spec of dust" than a Who...

[lawmama]

Steve,

I go to school with a few people that I could imgaine as politicians one day.  Fortunately, I don’t think any of you will ever see my name on a ballot. . .

I will admit that I am ignorant about how they actually have the tax (penalty?) arranged.  Are you sure that if you make no income in a given year you aren’t subject to the penalty?  In other words, if I make no income in year 1 and have no health insurance, but then get a job and file a return in year 2, will I be penalized for years 1 and 2 or only year 2- the year that I had income?  Not sure.  Also, how does it work with children?  Are we penalized if we don’t insure our children? 

Like I said before, I really see the Supreme Court going either way.  I wish they would find it unconstitutional, but I’m not yet a lawyer, much less a Supreme Court Justice.  Such legal reasoning is a little above my pay grade.

Lyn