Author Topic: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY  (Read 5308 times)

LADavid

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SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« on: June 23, 2008, 09:01:06 pm »
mind.  I just received a notice from the insurance review company that they are denying me coverage for my fourth day in the hospital because I was walking and my vital signs were good on the third day.  Previous to that BCBS OKed the fourth day.  I didn't ask to stay in the hospital.  It was my doctor's decision.  I really don't want this to end up on my plate.  I'm guessing hospitals charge about $5000 a day.  Has anyone else had to deal with this?  Who did you slay in the process?

David (mere steps from a padded cell)
Right ear tinnitus w/80% hearing loss 1985.
Left ear 40% hearing loss 8/07.
1.5 CM Translab Rt ear.
Sort of quiet around here.
http://my.calendars.net/AN_Treatments

lori67

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #1 on: June 23, 2008, 09:22:44 pm »
Are you kidding me?  You only get 3 days after brain surgery????  That's the most ridiculous and horrible thing I've ever heard.  Well, maybe not the most, but it's up there.

I'd call the doctor and let him know since it's his decision when to let you go home.  It's not like you were staying at the spa - it's a hospital!  Like anyone would want to stay there any longer than necessary.  Your doctor should be able to provide documentation saying he didn't feel you were ready to be released until day 4.

Good luck - I'm sure this has the potential to be quite an adventure!  Let me know if you need me to book you a padded room for a few days.   :)

Lori
Right 3cm AN diagnosed 1/2007.  Translab resection 2/20/07 by Dr. David Kaylie and Dr. Karl Hampf at Baptist Hospital in Nashville.  R side deafness, facial nerve paralysis.  Tarsorraphy and tear duct cauterization 5/2007.  BAHA implant 11/8/07. 7-12 nerve jump 9/26/08.

leapyrtwins

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #2 on: June 23, 2008, 09:28:32 pm »
David -

you are just having so much fun lately, aren't you?  :'(

My insurance company initially denied coverage of my last day in the hospital.  It seems they felt I should have only been there for 4 nights instead of 5.  When I called to ask them how they determined that I had stayed too long, I was told my records had been reviewed by an internist  :o  While I have nothing against internists, I told them that they needed to have my records looked at by a neurosurgeon and/or a neurotologist or at the very least some other doctor who performed craniectomies!

I also informed them that it was my doctor's decision to keep me in the hospital an additional night and that he had very good reasons for this.  Then I proceeded to list those reasons. 

In the end, they didn't take my word for it, but my doctor wrote them some kind of letter or gave them a copy of my post op records and that convinced them that he was right for keeping me an extra day.

Long story, short.  Ask your doctor to respond to the insurance company.  Doctor's are well-versed in this kind of thing, plus I'm confident that your doc had some very good reasons for keeping you longer than your insurance company "feels" was necessary.

Hang in there,

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

lacey7

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #3 on: June 23, 2008, 09:58:04 pm »
I also had this problem, but it was a different kind of surgery.  It was supposed to be an out-patient surgery.  They admitted me b/c of nausea/vomiting.  I stayed one night.  I got home and got a letter from the insurance company.  They said I should have called them when they admitted me!!!  I said I was so sick, I couldn't make a call.
I had to really fight for it, but I got them to pay for it. 
Just have your doctor get involved.....and I'm sure you will be ok.  They can't ignore what the doctor says, even tho they might try.
Diagnosed 4/15/08.
AN - 1.4 cm.  Translab surgery 6-26-08.  SPF leak 7-5-08, and went back into surgery 7 -6-08.
SSD left side, after surgery
Dr. LaRoure - Providence Hospital, Southfield, MI.

Brendalu

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #4 on: June 24, 2008, 05:07:34 am »
I was lucky, my insurance, even though it changed from one company to another midstream, covered my entire stay at 100%.  My doctor told me that you can negotiate with the doctors and or hospital and they will accept whatever the insurance would have paid, if you can't get your doctor to go to bat for you.  You can also call your insurance company, they have a special department, to relook at the claim.  Usually when you explain things to them, it gets covered.  I have CRS (can't remember stuff)  and can't remember the name of the department!  Good luck , David!
Brenda
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AN surgery 7/28/05
Peyman Pakzaban, NS
Chester Strunk, ENT

HeadCase2

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #5 on: June 24, 2008, 07:08:08 am »
David,
  Unbeleiveable.  Soon they'll be telling us that if you have a pulse they won't pay for a hospita stay.  I agree that your doctors may know how to handle this best.  I'm sure they are familar with the insurance companies' criteria for coverage.  And will be able to justify an extra day, until you had recovered some function that reguired the stay.
Regards,
  Rob
1.5 X 1.0 cm AN- left side
Retrosigmoid 2/9/06
Duke Univ. Hospital

GrogMeister of the PBW

pswift00

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #6 on: June 24, 2008, 07:42:16 am »
Not quite sure why the insurance company is trying to make this your problem.  As you stated, you didn't ask to stay in the hospital- it's the doctor's decision.  If BCBS is denying the claim, it's the hospital's problem, not yours.  They can probably write that extra day off as a loss.  Also, I learned something very interesting in talking to my insurance company, as my hospital billed them over $13,000 for the day/night I spent in the ER, ICU, CT scans, MRI's, etc. when I was diagnosed.  The insurance company paid $2500 for that entire bill, and the hospital is expected to write the rest off as an 'insurance loss' or 'claim adjustment' or something.  Anyway, here's the really interesting part.  The woman from Aetna told me if I didn't have insurance, I would have gotten that bill from the hospital and would have been expected to pay the entire $13,000, but since I have insurace, Aetna pays $2500 and it's a done deal. So, in summary, if you don't have insurance, you're expected to pay way more for health care than an insurance company would have to pay for the same services.  No wonder health care in this country is such a hot-button issue and so messed up.  Sorry to hijack the thread.

leapyrtwins

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #7 on: June 24, 2008, 07:44:16 am »
I have CRS (can't remember stuff)  and can't remember the name of the department! 

Brendalu -

CSR - what a cute name!  I have that too  ::)

Sorry for the hijack, David  :)

Don't forget to keep us updated on this insurance thing.

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

leapyrtwins

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #8 on: June 24, 2008, 07:46:45 am »
So, in summary, if you don't have insurance, you're expected to pay way more for health care than an insurance company would have to pay for the same services.  No wonder health care in this country is such a hot-button issue and so messed up.

This is typical of how health insurance works in America.  Sad, but true! 

Jan - hijacking again  ;)
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

Debbi

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #9 on: June 24, 2008, 08:02:49 am »
David-

It's already been said - but bottom line is that your surgeon must get involved in fighting this out with the insurance company.  It is ultimately the surgeon's decisoin as to when the patient is fit to go home, NOT the insurance company!  I have many choice words for the bureaucrats who work at insurance companies - none of which would get past our Moderators! ;D 

Suffice it to say that insurance companies are profit driven entities, NOT humanitarian organizations. 

Don't let 'em win this one!

Debbi - stepping down off the soapbox now...
Debbi - diagnosed March 4, 2008 
2.4 cm Right Side AN
Translab April 30, 2008 at NYU with Drs. Golfinos and Roland
SSD Right ear, Mild synkinesis and facial nerve damage
BAHA "installed" Feb 2011 by Dr. Cosetti @ NYU

http://debsanadventure.blogspot.com

fbarbera

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #10 on: June 24, 2008, 09:50:18 am »
Completely disgusting.  They are just hoping that you will not have the patience and energy to contest the denial of the benefits to which you are entitled.  The business strategy is to make getting your benefits as painful and tedious as possible on the theory that at least some people will just write the check to avoid the hassle.  And they know that $5,000 isn't enough for you to go out and hire a lawyer to sue them for bad faith denial of your health care benefits, which is exactly what is going on here.  It is disgusting.  Ugh.

Also, it's interesting that you were ordered to stay for four days but they said three was enough in their considered medical opinion.  Jan was ordered to stay five days but they said four was enough.  So I guess the strategy is, let's deny the last day of hospital stays so hospitals get the message to discharge patients prematurely and this way we can save money when our beneficiaries need brain surgery.   Nice.

Anyway, I suspect your hospital will be as disgusted as you are and will have the resources to deal with it.  They probably will say something like "yes, we see this all the time."

And the appeal undoubtedly will go your way because their whole strategy is just to hope that you will not bother appealing.  Imagine them trying to defend this deplorable decision.  They can't.   

Good luck and be well.

Francesco




Jim Scott

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #11 on: June 24, 2008, 03:21:22 pm »
David:

This thread really belongs in the 'Insurance' forum but its a little late now to move it so allow me to add my voice to the chorus that advises you to (a) appeal and (b) have your neurosurgeon send a letter to the insurance company that explains his decision to keep you hospitalized four days, which, as we all know, is pretty standard for AN surgery patients.

My insurance company didn't deny my 4th day (actually 4½) but did attempt to deny the cost of the technician that monitored my facial nerve during the surgery because he was from out-of-town (Pittsburgh, PA) and not in my network.  My wife talked to the insurance handler for my case and explained that I had no part in choosing this fellow (although I was glad he was there) and that he was very necessary to the surgery (true).  She used to be a supervisor in the claims department of a major insurance company (auto and home, not medical) and is very knowledgeable and persuasive.  Not only did Blue Cross pay the technician's fee but waived the 20% they normally would not have paid.

Insurance companies can be obstacles but they are staffed by human beings and can usually be persuaded to do the right thing, although it can take patience and determination, which many of us simply don't have.  I'm grateful that my wife does because she has saved us a lot of money over the years by virtue of her negotiation skills and  'insiders' understanding of how the insurance company operates, who to talk to and how to approach them.  My usual approach in these situations (a recalcitrant insurance company claim representative denying my claim) is to scream at the rep and forcefully push the 'off' button on the phone.  To digress: frankly, I miss the old phones that you could actually slam down on the handset cradle with a satisfying crash.  Anyway, this approach is momentarily satisfying but ultimately unproductive as the insurance company still doesn't pay the claim and the abused rep puts a note in your file that says 'Displays severe anger issues'. My wife, on the other hand, can stay on hold for as long as it takes and usually deals with reps in a sweetly reasonable tone of voice.  One of her favorite lines is: "Can you please connect me with a supervisor?  Thank you".  She knows that claim reps don't have much authority and are usually instructed to just say "No".  Supervisors can actually change a decision on the spot and are less likely to argue with logic and facts.  My wife's experience in the insurance business has proved invaluable, many times, as she has had numerous hospitalizations and outpatient procedures over the years and Blue Cross hasn't always been eager to pay the bill as presented. 

All this is simply meant as background for my earlier contention that a doctor's letter to the insurance company will likely resolve this problem.  I suggest you contact him as soon as possible and get him going on this before the hospital starts getting antsy for their money.  Let the hospital billing office know that you're disputing the insurance on the 4th day issue so they won't start billing you and eventually record you as 'delinquent' (in paying).  FYI:  the hospital I was in here on the east coast, in New Haven, charged about $3,500. per day for a semi-private room and all my needs until I was discharged.  About what a 5-star hotel in a resort area charges, just for comparison.  But the hotel doesn't offer catheter service or inedible food  ;)

Good luck with this, David.  Let us know how it works out.

Jim
4.5 cm AN diagnosed 5/06.  Retrosigmoid surgery 6/06.  Follow-up FSR completed 10/06.  Tumor shrinkage & necrosis noted on last MRI.  Life is good. 

Life is not the way it's supposed to be. It's the way it is.  The way we cope with it is what makes the difference.

LADavid

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #12 on: June 25, 2008, 04:32:59 pm »
Thank you all.  It's like I've been out slaying dragons since the day I left the hospital only the dragons come back to life.  I gotta to find a way of making them stay dead.

I wrote back to the insurance review company saying it was not my decision to stay and that BBBC previously OKd the stay and to take it up with the clinic -- and I copied the surgeon.  Based on my current condition, I'm thinking I should have been in the hospital for a month.

And you're right, Rob.  Gotta pulse, back your bags, you're going home.

David
PS  Good new picture, Debbi -- is that almost a full smile?
Right ear tinnitus w/80% hearing loss 1985.
Left ear 40% hearing loss 8/07.
1.5 CM Translab Rt ear.
Sort of quiet around here.
http://my.calendars.net/AN_Treatments

leapyrtwins

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #13 on: June 25, 2008, 05:03:45 pm »
David -

somehow I can picture you as a knight in shining armor  ;)

Sorry about the recurring dragons; hope things improve.

Keep the faith,

Jan
Retrosig 5/31/07 Drs. Battista & Kazan (Hinsdale, Illinois)
Left AN 3.0 cm (1.5 cm @ diagnosis 6 wks prior) SSD. BAHA implant 3/4/08 (Dr. Battista) Divino 6/4/08  BP100 4/2010 BAHA 5 8/2015

I don't actually "make" trouble..just kind of attract it, fine tune it, and apply it in new and exciting ways

Debbi

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Re: SO I AM SLOWLY LOSING MY
« Reply #14 on: June 25, 2008, 05:12:19 pm »
Hi David-

To answer your question - that is a pre-surgery picture.   ;D (I was getting tired of the other picture so thought I'd change things up a bit...)  My smile still doesn't work at all.  But I am learning to have patience ... (my husband would dispute that statement...)

How are things going with your facial rehab?  I can't remember - have you tried the temporary eye weight?  If so, what did/do you think of it?

Debbi

Debbi - diagnosed March 4, 2008 
2.4 cm Right Side AN
Translab April 30, 2008 at NYU with Drs. Golfinos and Roland
SSD Right ear, Mild synkinesis and facial nerve damage
BAHA "installed" Feb 2011 by Dr. Cosetti @ NYU

http://debsanadventure.blogspot.com