How do you measure AN on CD?

[boomer]

Sorry to ask such a silly question, but how do you do the measuring on a CD MRI?
Thanks in advance.

[GM]

I'm not sure if all software is the same...  But there is a measuring tool...it looks like a ruler. 

Find the image of your tumor (at its widest point) and measure the tumor using the ruler tool.

GM

[tenai98]

Believe me its not a silly question.  I had the same question not to long ago....find the ruler, click on it, go to tumor, click on outer most part of it and hold and drag to other side...measurement should show up....

[GM]

Here is a link to a post I made in July where I'm comparing my tumor from last year to this year...hope this helps.

http://anausa.org/forum/index.php?action=profile;u=16;sa=showPosts;start=15

Gary

[womack_b]

I was glad to see this topic show up - I can really relate.  I have spent a lot of time investigating this problem but I can't find an answer.  When I look at my MRI the tumor can be straightforwardly measured for width and height (it is 1-cm x 1-cm) but I can't get a measurement for depth. My MRI report just says "a 1-cm in diameter lesion". The most detailed set of images on my MRI is called "3-D Fiesta Hi-Res".  The distance between these high resolution slices is what I am after because then I can measure the depth and finally know the true dimensions of the tumor.  I see on the scan a number that goes like this:  AX: I31.7 (COI) and the next slice reads AX: 131.3 (COI).  Note that the first character is an "I" and not a "1".  The slices outlining the tumor travel from AX: I22.9 (COI) to AX: I14.9 (COI) and include 21 "slice" images.  The distance between 2 slices is not 4mm (otherwise the tumor would be 8.4 cms deep).  They might be .04 mm.  I can't find the answer to the distance between these slices on the internet or from calling my hospital's MRI unit.   Can you help me with the translation?

Of course one option would be to ask my neurosurgeon. Part of my problem is that I must wait 6 weeks to see a neurologist or neurosurgeon (I live in the north-west corner of New Mexico) and the doctor's office refuses to offer any info on anything until I see the doctor. I want to be pro-active and be well versed on the best options for my sized tumor when I finally get to see him, plus I just want to know. 

Thanks very much.

Bart (in the outback of New Mexico)

[Kate B]

Hi Bart,

Have you called to get the report from the imaging center?  I pick mine up prior to my doctor visit to know what it says.
It is a good idea to keep a copy of the reports.

In the report it will state the size.

Kate

[sgerrard]

Bart,

I agree with Kate, the best way is to get the radiologist report. You might look around on the CD; sometimes the radiologist report is included - on mine the button was labeled Notes.

If you are doing it yourself, I don't think counting slices is considered a valid measurement. There should be series of images from different directions, so you can measure two of them while looking down (or up) at your head, a different two looking from the side, a different two looking from the back (or front).

Having said all that, my guess would be that your guess of 0.04 mm per slice is about right. 

Steve

[HeadCase2]

Hello Bart,
  I agree with Steve that the distance between slices is probably unrelated to tumor dimension.   Having said that, the distance between individual slices is probably closer to 1 cm (10 mm) than 0.04 mm.  0.04 mm is very small, and it would take 100's of slices of this spacing to scan across the head. The 0.04 mm might be the depth of an individual slice, but again this would be unrelated to the third dimension that you can't see in that slice.   As Steve mentioned you can measure two dimensions in a horizontal slice, and then two dimensions in a vertical slice.  One of the dimensions in the vertical and horizontal slices would be the same dimension, leaving you with the three dimensions or measurements that you're interested in.
  Some, if not all, of the MRI CD viewer programs have a measuring tool, where you can mouse click on one edge of the tumor (in the slice where it apears biggest), and drawing a line as you click the other side and indicated how long the lline is.  If the line length tool isn't there, MRI's often have a cm scale along one side of the image.  To use that, put a piece of paper on the screen and mark along the edge of the paper how big the tumor is, and then move this over to the scale to see how long it is.
  The radiology report may have the dimensions too.  Good luck with your research.  Ask any guestions here you want, and someone probably knows the answer.
  I see you're in New Mexico.  I love northern New Mexico.  I fell in love with the place during graduate school, doing research in the Tusas range.  And hope to retire there.  Eat a few roasted chilis for me. 
Regards,
  Rob
 

[sgerrard]

0.04 mm is very small,

Oops. I think I (or we) meant 0.4 mm, which would make a little more sense.

Steve

[leapyrtwins]

Hi, Bart and welcome.

Like Kate & Steve said, one of the best ways to find the size of your AN is to get a copy of the radiologist's report; it should say.

Sorry to hear you have an AN, but you're in good company; we're nice people to know 

Stop by often; we're here to help you.

Jan

[womack_b]

Thanks for your input and advice - it was truly helpful to read your responses. I must admit that except for the fear and uncertainty this thing creates, it has taken me on a fascinating biological journey.  I feel privaledged that I can put an image of an MRI up on my computer, see this thing (I even have a name for mine) and be involved with its treatment. 

Anywy, after reading your responses I decided to lean a little more on the MRI folks here and finally got in contact with a tech by the name of Troy who was at least willing to tell me the distance between slices and how to view the coronal image (which was quite fuzzy) vs. the axial image and the best way to do measurements in both views.  So... after doing my own measurements it appears that the darn thing is 1.1 cm (long - away from the inner ear canal) x .9 cm (thick - front to back) x .8 cm. (vertical - top to bottom).

Getting the dimensions was important (to me). I feel I can now concentrate more on the choice of treatment.  If I could only take care of this darned ringing...

Thanks so much for your help!

Bart

[womack_b]

Hi Rob, Steve, Cheri, Jan, and Kate,

Wow, thanks for your advice and thoughts!

I have a feeling that I am looking too closely into this....but,
I read some more about MRI measurements and kept running into statements like: "MRI measurements are inexact at best." What have you heard?  Do measurements under-estimate tumor size?  How close to the true size are these measurements? Are the differences great?
So...I did a more careful measurement with a larger magnification of the image and decided that my tumor is better represented as 1.2 cm. x 1 cm. x 1 cm. - so slightly larger than my first measurement.    I also hear that tumor volume is really more important.  I am very interested in tumor size since I understand that it determines so much the treatment one chooses. I am also learning that where it is located is very important for hearing preservation and opting for surgery vs radiosurgery (ie originating on the superior vs inferior vestibular branch, how far inside the inner ear canal it is, how much it has erupted into the cerebral-pontine angle, etc.).  There is a LOT to this!

Thanks,

Bart

[sgerrard]

Hi Bart,

You know, getting into all the factors that determine how suitable each kind of treatment is may be a bit much, unless you are secretly in med school.

You might try taking advantage of two good resources, where you can often get free evaluations of an MRI:

House Ear Clinic: http://www.houseearclinic.com/acousticneuromaconsultation.htm

The Cyberknife support group: http://www.cyberknifesupport.org/about_the_doctors.html

Their insights might help you sort out position, size, CP angle protrusion, etc., and the suitability of your AN for various treatment options.

Steve